Have you contacted the current pimp manufacturer with complete details of your current set-up? It looks ike across of an aquaponics and tank system and may be an issue of air saturation causing impeller cavitation.
How do I reduce water pump vibration in my house?
- Thread starter Pinkey
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D
dougall
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fishorama
I was a bit frantic and brain-stormy in my reply. I see how most of it didn't accurately relay what was in my head. I'll first try for a clear explanation and then address specific ideas you brought up in the conversation.
The primary tank is directly over a storage room with easy access to copper water pipes. I am planning on tapping one of the copper pipes for an auto fill system. The tanks are open-topped because I love looking down into them because it feels like looking into a lake. I add 3-4 gallons per day depending on the season. Some is evaporation, much is plant consumption.
The primary tank currently has a Mag 9.5 pump which connects to the rigid PVC hydroponics system through an 8" piece of clear vinyl tubing. Using a bit of tubing instead of all PVC reduces a lot of vibration. The hydroponics system is all above water level and goes up the wall of the house. It is mounted firmly to the wall. Sometimes the pump will vibrate into some position where it begins to send vibrations up the entire wall which is annoying. The vinyl tubing is just long enough to allow the pump to be submerged. The pump is not near the bottom of the tank but the top. This way, in case there is some catastrophic failure, I'll end up with 30 gallons of water somewhere bad instead of 125 gallons. Occasionally the pump will begin vibrating against the corner of the tank. I've got a big synthetic car washing sponge I've been cutting chunks out of for years. I'll add another cube of that sponge between the pump and the glass and take out whatever old chunk of sponge is no longer squishy. This helps, too.
The two sources of vibration are the pump transferring vibration through the vinyl tube into the hydroponics apparatus and the pump vibrating against the glass walls in the corner of the aquarium.
This is what I feverishly brainstormed the other day: I think I can put a pump in the storage room and feed vinyl tubing through the wall back up to the tank. If I do this, even a little slack in the vinyl tubing will stop nearly all the vibration from transferring through the tube into the wall. If the pump is out of the tank and secured to the steel I-Beam, I should be able to stop all vibration between the pump and the tank.
My informal question that I worked through in my reply was about calculating head height. The numbers that matter are the water level of the sump (in this case, not a sump but my primary tank), and the head height. BTW: This is a really cool math thing for this: https://www.pumpfundamentals.com/php_pages/pump/head-1.php In theory, the most important thing for this calculation is the difference between the water level and the head height rather than the distance from the pump to the top of the waterfall. The pump can be almost anywhere. There are two factors that affect gph which are lift and friction. The lift will not change if I move the pump lower, the friction will increase because there will be more tubing but it won't increase enough to adversely affect the function of this system. That is my theory, at the moment.
The entire goal is exactly what D dougall said: " I'm not sure that there's a good way to lessen the noise as it's either going to mean replacing the pump or having it in some sort of configuration where noise isn't going to be transmitted, so having flexible joints in the tubing, moving rubber between the pump and the tank and that sort of thing." Yes! I want to turn this into an artform.
Here are some photos to help tell the story.
The intake is right near the surface to prevent disasters.
I very proudly discovered on my own that the negative pressure before a pump could be used to control the intake of air. It turns out that Giovanni Battista Venturi did it about 300 years before I figured it out. It's so much quieter than an every air pump I've ever thrown out.
Good solid connections. The 4" tube that goes to the top of the hydroponic apparatus is filled with expanded clay pellet bio media. The air in the system from the venturi intake keeps the whole thing aerated and happy. This tube filled with water and clay is heavy. The L bracket supports the weight and also conducts vibrations really solidly into the wall.
There is no reason for this picture other than to show off to some of the only people in the world who care about such things.
Same here. This is for perspective. The tanks are each 6' across. I prune and hang 3-4 times a year using a 22' extension ladder.
The primary tank is directly over a storage room with easy access to copper water pipes. I am planning on tapping one of the copper pipes for an auto fill system. The tanks are open-topped because I love looking down into them because it feels like looking into a lake. I add 3-4 gallons per day depending on the season. Some is evaporation, much is plant consumption.
The primary tank currently has a Mag 9.5 pump which connects to the rigid PVC hydroponics system through an 8" piece of clear vinyl tubing. Using a bit of tubing instead of all PVC reduces a lot of vibration. The hydroponics system is all above water level and goes up the wall of the house. It is mounted firmly to the wall. Sometimes the pump will vibrate into some position where it begins to send vibrations up the entire wall which is annoying. The vinyl tubing is just long enough to allow the pump to be submerged. The pump is not near the bottom of the tank but the top. This way, in case there is some catastrophic failure, I'll end up with 30 gallons of water somewhere bad instead of 125 gallons. Occasionally the pump will begin vibrating against the corner of the tank. I've got a big synthetic car washing sponge I've been cutting chunks out of for years. I'll add another cube of that sponge between the pump and the glass and take out whatever old chunk of sponge is no longer squishy. This helps, too.
The two sources of vibration are the pump transferring vibration through the vinyl tube into the hydroponics apparatus and the pump vibrating against the glass walls in the corner of the aquarium.
This is what I feverishly brainstormed the other day: I think I can put a pump in the storage room and feed vinyl tubing through the wall back up to the tank. If I do this, even a little slack in the vinyl tubing will stop nearly all the vibration from transferring through the tube into the wall. If the pump is out of the tank and secured to the steel I-Beam, I should be able to stop all vibration between the pump and the tank.
My informal question that I worked through in my reply was about calculating head height. The numbers that matter are the water level of the sump (in this case, not a sump but my primary tank), and the head height. BTW: This is a really cool math thing for this: https://www.pumpfundamentals.com/php_pages/pump/head-1.php In theory, the most important thing for this calculation is the difference between the water level and the head height rather than the distance from the pump to the top of the waterfall. The pump can be almost anywhere. There are two factors that affect gph which are lift and friction. The lift will not change if I move the pump lower, the friction will increase because there will be more tubing but it won't increase enough to adversely affect the function of this system. That is my theory, at the moment.
The entire goal is exactly what D dougall said: " I'm not sure that there's a good way to lessen the noise as it's either going to mean replacing the pump or having it in some sort of configuration where noise isn't going to be transmitted, so having flexible joints in the tubing, moving rubber between the pump and the tank and that sort of thing." Yes! I want to turn this into an artform.
Here are some photos to help tell the story.
The intake is right near the surface to prevent disasters.
I very proudly discovered on my own that the negative pressure before a pump could be used to control the intake of air. It turns out that Giovanni Battista Venturi did it about 300 years before I figured it out. It's so much quieter than an every air pump I've ever thrown out.
Good solid connections. The 4" tube that goes to the top of the hydroponic apparatus is filled with expanded clay pellet bio media. The air in the system from the venturi intake keeps the whole thing aerated and happy. This tube filled with water and clay is heavy. The L bracket supports the weight and also conducts vibrations really solidly into the wall.
There is no reason for this picture other than to show off to some of the only people in the world who care about such things.
Same here. This is for perspective. The tanks are each 6' across. I prune and hang 3-4 times a year using a 22' extension ladder.
I have a vibration problem with my air pumps. I use bigger ones than powere anywhere from a minimum of 8 outputs to a max of 22. I have 3 such pumps in different rooms. All of them vibrate strongly and I use a piece of foam under them and they become almost silent and no vibrations transmitted.
I use one of the on my summer set=up which are essentually outdoors on a screened terrace, the screans attach to the 2x4s and 4x4 that frame the room. For my manufolds and the pump to sit above all the tank I create a shelf bwetween two of the fertical 2x4s. So this year I ran lean- only 5 v 20longs.I also moved a coiuple of my metal stands, unassembled, onto the terrace, I leaned one set of the metal shelve against a lover level horizontal 2x4 almost 6 ft. away from the air pump.
The next thing I know I am hearing a lour metal vibration. I tracked it down to the two shelved leaning against the 2x4. I little sleuthing and I traced the cause to the big air pump. So I want into my box of poret foam scraps. got a pice of10 or 200 ppi and put it inder the pump. Silence ensued. Almost all if my air pumps sit on some sort of foam. When I built the shelf that holds another such pump which powered 18 outlets, I use sheets of cork between the wall and the shelf and then under the pump itself so the vibrations would not transmit in to wall and from there, who knows.
I could use some form of thich rubber pad, but I don't have that and I do have lots of foam. There is one downside. The pumps are heavy and they eventual sink down to the foam and the noise starts. What happens it the rubber legs push int ot hhe foan until the bottom of the pump hits the foam. When that happens I shift the pump a bit and it quiets.
You can use a thick rummer pad or anything soft that will absorb rather than transmit the vibrations. Yhe isea is the rubber fee rest on the pad and this damps it all. As the little pads sink into the foam, the bottom of pump gets lower until it rests on the par, Theat cause it to stop absorbing the vibrations ans start transmitting them. That is when it is time to shift the pump so it rests again on the feet and not the bottom of the pump.
You need the pad or foam to act as a shock absorber. I have one set of foam that is quite rigid. It takes longer for me to need to shift the pump even though it is the largest of the pumps I use.
I use one of the on my summer set=up which are essentually outdoors on a screened terrace, the screans attach to the 2x4s and 4x4 that frame the room. For my manufolds and the pump to sit above all the tank I create a shelf bwetween two of the fertical 2x4s. So this year I ran lean- only 5 v 20longs.I also moved a coiuple of my metal stands, unassembled, onto the terrace, I leaned one set of the metal shelve against a lover level horizontal 2x4 almost 6 ft. away from the air pump.
The next thing I know I am hearing a lour metal vibration. I tracked it down to the two shelved leaning against the 2x4. I little sleuthing and I traced the cause to the big air pump. So I want into my box of poret foam scraps. got a pice of10 or 200 ppi and put it inder the pump. Silence ensued. Almost all if my air pumps sit on some sort of foam. When I built the shelf that holds another such pump which powered 18 outlets, I use sheets of cork between the wall and the shelf and then under the pump itself so the vibrations would not transmit in to wall and from there, who knows.
I could use some form of thich rubber pad, but I don't have that and I do have lots of foam. There is one downside. The pumps are heavy and they eventual sink down to the foam and the noise starts. What happens it the rubber legs push int ot hhe foan until the bottom of the pump hits the foam. When that happens I shift the pump a bit and it quiets.
You can use a thick rummer pad or anything soft that will absorb rather than transmit the vibrations. Yhe isea is the rubber fee rest on the pad and this damps it all. As the little pads sink into the foam, the bottom of pump gets lower until it rests on the par, Theat cause it to stop absorbing the vibrations ans start transmitting them. That is when it is time to shift the pump so it rests again on the feet and not the bottom of the pump.
You need the pad or foam to act as a shock absorber. I have one set of foam that is quite rigid. It takes longer for me to need to shift the pump even though it is the largest of the pumps I use.
I think I get the storage room thing now.. I was assuming that it was in the basement, not horizontally across.. I assume I misread it read incorrectly read between the lines.
I think I you will see an increase in head pressure moving through the wall. You will also likely need to think about keeping the pump primed as it is no longer going to be submerged.
I would likely try running with the pump externally for a little while as a proof of concept though, before going through the actual wall
I think I you will see an increase in head pressure moving through the wall. You will also likely need to think about keeping the pump primed as it is no longer going to be submerged.
I would likely try running with the pump externally for a little while as a proof of concept though, before going through the actual wall
Oh, I thought basement storage room too...I "think" the head will be less through a side wall than up from a basement thick floor...but with 1 more bend so maybe not.
Some of those acoustic tiles/panels could be thin enough to shove underneath where the tubing is near the wall or in the storage room.
Thanks for the pics looking down into & across your tank room. Is there no seating for vegging out in front of the tanks? Recliners for the multi-story plant effect? I love that you have art all over the walls even though I can't see well.
Some of those acoustic tiles/panels could be thin enough to shove underneath where the tubing is near the wall or in the storage room.
Thanks for the pics looking down into & across your tank room. Is there no seating for vegging out in front of the tanks? Recliners for the multi-story plant effect? I love that you have art all over the walls even though I can't see well.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Pads, rubber, reducing vibration. Thanks for the ideas.
Good idea. I think this may be key. The storage room is directly below, not on the same level as the tanks. I'd drill a hole through the floor/ceiling to move the pump to isolate the vibration but after thinking through wat T TwoTankAmin said, I'm making it too difficult. I think I can build a sound-isolating compartment under the new stand and keep the pump there. It will be below water level so it will generally stay primed but I will still need a way to manually prime it for maintenance. I've ordered some pump suction hose (which I didn't even know existed before today). https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B7MTCS28 I've used vinyl tubing on many occasions and it tends to collapse. We'll see what this does. It has a bigger ID than the pump. I generally oversize my plumbing so the pump is the narrowest bit of the system to increase waterflow. Once this tubing arrives I'll plumb a temporary contraption as proof of concept. Thanks for the baby-step suggestion. I often focus on the end result and miss some of the simple test steps along the way.
I love this forum because it provides a place for us to talk things through that no one else wants to read. I've been making it too difficult. I can build a mini sound-isolating room within the new stand and solve nearly all the problems. And no, there is not currently seating in the fish room. I started going to wine school hosting classes. The couch was replaced with cabinets and fridges for wine and books and glassware and things. My daughter filed the same complaint. She loved that couch. She's 30 and still names every fish over about 2".
LOL, we're winos too! in maybe a less sophisticated way. Wine school hosting? We go for home wine tastings & finding less expensive but yummy wines these days since husband's retirement. We sometimes invite friends & neighbors to partake with us but not much since covid (sigh). We used to do trick or treat for kids...& for grown ups...fun times!
I have 1 tank next to my computer (hillstream sewellia loaches), 1 across the room (hand me down corys, BNs & a few ancient rummynose)...& the very seldom looked at "big" tank in what "normal people" call a dining room. The big tank has never had fish or any animals, just plants. My plant club set it up a few months before covid...
Sorry to derail your thread but I like the mini sound studio thing. Like I said I don't know what sound waves any of those dampening products might help with. They didn't seem super expensive for several square feet of any of them but maybe there's a "sound wave dampening" website or a few that can actually help. Vibration seems like a separate sound quality issue from bass & drum low boom or feedback whine...more music focused than pump vibrations...but they are related...
Recliners on wheels?
I have 1 tank next to my computer (hillstream sewellia loaches), 1 across the room (hand me down corys, BNs & a few ancient rummynose)...& the very seldom looked at "big" tank in what "normal people" call a dining room. The big tank has never had fish or any animals, just plants. My plant club set it up a few months before covid...
Sorry to derail your thread but I like the mini sound studio thing. Like I said I don't know what sound waves any of those dampening products might help with. They didn't seem super expensive for several square feet of any of them but maybe there's a "sound wave dampening" website or a few that can actually help. Vibration seems like a separate sound quality issue from bass & drum low boom or feedback whine...more music focused than pump vibrations...but they are related...
Recliners on wheels?
I'll derail my own post. Wine school is a lot of fun. It's approachable for people at all levels to start. I've completed the first two levels of WSET (Wine Spirit Education Trust) and am currently studying level 3. It's an online course with samples through Napa Valley Wine Academy. (www.napavalleywineacademy.com) It's been a lot of fun. I host tastings every other week where we get to taste 4-6 wines based on a theme. It's often geography, grape type, production method, or blind tasting. This way we get to taste far mor than is practical for one person to taste. As host, organizer, and buyer, I get the added bonus of letting everyone else pay for my share of the wine. Everyone wins.
I have two tanks. The tank in front of the windows has a couple of 12" pictus cats, two severums, and 8 full-grown silver dollars. The other tank with all the plants is a community tank with nearly nothing in it. I am planning on changing that out for one of the 180g tanks sitting in my garage once I build the stand. I joke that the bio load in that tank would do just fine in a 10g tank. Once the new glass is in place I plan on putting the big fish in the big tank and populating the heck out of the community tank. I have enough filters on these guys to support 10x the community fish I have and another few oscars before I really even start to tax the filtration. As it is, I only do a couple water changes a year just to change the color of the water from a warm clear back to crystal clear. The plants are currently under fertilized.
The way it's all sitting now, I might add one of the 180g tanks to my office and have 3 tanks for a bit. My office is the room you can see in the second picture. You can see my desk through the chandelier. There would be one tank on each side of that wall. I'd make a passthrough to keep them all centrally plumbed and sharing filtration and bioload. The problem I have is that I'm more excited about building tanks than constantly buying fish to stock them. Community fish only last a few years. I'd end up having to buy more every other month to keep 75 of them in the tank I have. If community fish live about 36 months, I'd have to replace about 25 a year. I guess it's not that bad now that I'm thinking about it. I just really need to keep up with it once they're all settled. That or get some more bigger fish. I do love bigger fish. I'd love a pacu or giant gourami but these tanks are still too tiny for those.
