...probably taking the rest of their tankmates with them. Maybe he'll get fed up & quit the hobby. We can only hope... Did you read his signature?
FYI - Knight Gobies eat Neons.
- Thread starter joe schmoe
- Start date
What you folks have to realize is that everyone doesn't look at this hobby the same way you do. Example: my tapwater is hard as has a PH likely somewhere in the neighborhood of 7.8 or so. Does that mean I should rid myself of all South American and Asian fish becuse the water properties aren't to their liking?? Obviously I don't think so.
Believe me...the gobies will be around for quite some time. I've had this tank up for 8 months or so and have lost 2 fish prior to this. One of them I bought knowing full-well he had little chance of surviving he was in so bad a shape to begin with. The other a Neon of questionable health. I've done this hobby for 15 years...I've done quite a bit. I now keep it simple...after all...IT'S JUST A FISH TANK (I put that sig there just for folks like you...the PETA group)
Yes, the 'fur is murder' bit was a joke. I find the irony in your response amusing though.
Believe me...the gobies will be around for quite some time. I've had this tank up for 8 months or so and have lost 2 fish prior to this. One of them I bought knowing full-well he had little chance of surviving he was in so bad a shape to begin with. The other a Neon of questionable health. I've done this hobby for 15 years...I've done quite a bit. I now keep it simple...after all...IT'S JUST A FISH TANK (I put that sig there just for folks like you...the PETA group)
Yes, the 'fur is murder' bit was a joke. I find the irony in your response amusing though.
You can HAVE the guilt of killing innocent creatures and wasting your money. You don't think it's a big deal until it actually happens. How would you like it if you were from california and some big alien kidnapped you and put in an arctic exhibit in their zoo. You get sick, ticked off and wind up freezing to death (not exactly the same but you get the idea). You might as well go buy some clown fish and thrown them in with your neons while your at it.
Just because your tap water is high doesn't mean you can't do anything about it. One could go to their lfs and buy some Neutral Regulator (by SeaChem) or some product to the like to bring the pH down. I also live where the waters pH is high and I treat it if I have acidic loving fish. And how do you know the gobies will be around for awhile since you said yourself it was an impulse buy which means generally the people don't know a thing about the fishes living conditions. Knight Gobies will NOT live for long in anything but brackish. Putting Knights in FW is practically the same as putting them in salwater. It is not their natural environment so they will stress and die generally aiding in getting their tankmates sick too. Why subject your tank to so much damage. If you plan on keeping it simple and say it is just a fish tank that doesn't show much integrity on your part. The fish are living breathing creatures. They have feelings and can fall victim to the same things humans can when they are stressed. I believe that if anyone that has replied to this post was you, they would ALL do the right thing and return the fish or set up a brackish tank. For Knights you would only need a 20G. Why not make them happy and get all of us that care for the fishes welfare off your back?
Sorry, peer pressure never worked for me. I see your points...all of them, but that's not going to change anything. I wont continue to go back and forth...I think we are wasting each other's time. What I will do is post pics of them in 6 months...they'll still be around...TRUST ME .
BTW - I've found that chemicals to change pH don't work to well...just my experience. IIRC, they have a hard time changing pH in hard water...but that experiment was quite some time ago.
Hmmm...
You find the irony in my post humorous? I find it humorous that you compared keeping south american fish in hard water to brackish fish in saltwater. I've kept Angels and Rams in water with a pH of nearly 8.0. There really aren't that many bad effects that occur to the fish in such a condition. Keeping brackish water fish in a freshwater environment is completely different. I guess you don't realize that brackish water fish rely on the salt in their environment for an osmotic balance? Without it, they are much much more likely to get diseases and have a weakened immune system. That is a fact, not my personal opinion.
You are being cruel and pernicious by keeping these fish in the conditions you are keeping them in. That is the bottom line.
You find the irony in my post humorous? I find it humorous that you compared keeping south american fish in hard water to brackish fish in saltwater. I've kept Angels and Rams in water with a pH of nearly 8.0. There really aren't that many bad effects that occur to the fish in such a condition. Keeping brackish water fish in a freshwater environment is completely different. I guess you don't realize that brackish water fish rely on the salt in their environment for an osmotic balance? Without it, they are much much more likely to get diseases and have a weakened immune system. That is a fact, not my personal opinion.
You are being cruel and pernicious by keeping these fish in the conditions you are keeping them in. That is the bottom line.
I hope that you are right, Joe, and I look forward to seeing those pix in 6 mos., but I think that we would be more likely to see them if the water in the knights' tank was brackish.
The only possible way for them to survive long-term in FW conditions would be if we somehow bred the necessity of BW for osmoregulation out of them (as we have managed to breed Angels and Rams which do not suffer from alkalosis in alkaline pH conditions), but I do not see that happening without almost completely changing their genetic makeup.
pH lowering products have a tendency not to work because alkaline water has enough buffering capacity that pH lowering products will not make a difference until "crash levels." pH raising products need to be used in conjunction with buffers if the GH and KH of water is low in an area. Yes, they do not work singularly, but they do work with a little extra chemical work...which is anathema to most of us.
I would urge you to please consider putting the Knights in BW, but slowly acclimating them to it is necessary at this point. Also, you could ask the LFS from whence they came what conditions they need--but be prepared to take that with a grain of salt (which would hopefully find its way to your tank).
~Matthew
P.S. If I were truly following the tenets of PETA, I would not have any pets, and I would tell you to do so as well. Since I am obviously an aquarist, I cannot be called a PETA radical, nor can any of the rest of us.
The only possible way for them to survive long-term in FW conditions would be if we somehow bred the necessity of BW for osmoregulation out of them (as we have managed to breed Angels and Rams which do not suffer from alkalosis in alkaline pH conditions), but I do not see that happening without almost completely changing their genetic makeup.
pH lowering products have a tendency not to work because alkaline water has enough buffering capacity that pH lowering products will not make a difference until "crash levels." pH raising products need to be used in conjunction with buffers if the GH and KH of water is low in an area. Yes, they do not work singularly, but they do work with a little extra chemical work...which is anathema to most of us.
I would urge you to please consider putting the Knights in BW, but slowly acclimating them to it is necessary at this point. Also, you could ask the LFS from whence they came what conditions they need--but be prepared to take that with a grain of salt (which would hopefully find its way to your tank).
~Matthew
P.S. If I were truly following the tenets of PETA, I would not have any pets, and I would tell you to do so as well. Since I am obviously an aquarist, I cannot be called a PETA radical, nor can any of the rest of us.
If that was at all in reference to me, I'm not in PETA. I'm quite opposed to that organization, actually. Not all vegetarians agree with PETA and some of it's extreme views.
I am, however, a member of GreenPeace.
I am, however, a member of GreenPeace.
is there any compromise? could suggest he just adds a relatively good amount of salt that hits that grey area tween fresh and brack and find some salt laden food to keep the fish a little more in balance.
i know we cant get world peace, but a little goby conditioning
should be a problem with a reasonable solution.
i know we cant get world peace, but a little goby conditioning
should be a problem with a reasonable solution.
Thats not exactly the point andruboz. Brackish should be kept in brackish water and ther is no grey region in between brackish and fresh. It is either brackish or its not. Plus a little bit of salt won't hurt the freshwater fish but Knights need more than a little bit. That is the issue. The fish are not being kept in the correct environment and until that happens the Knights will be totally stressed and will eventually die. I bought a Knight Goby that was being kept in freshwater a couple of years ago (I DID know that they were a brackish fish and went home and acclimated him up), well the store had him for two weeks and he hid behind the UGF tube and was almost black (very dark grey). He was surely close to deaths doorstep. I think you are very optomistic in assuming the Knights will still be in "good" condition in 6 months, if alive at all.
