We Know I'm Overstocked- Now What? Nitrates High!

[valval1029]

Now that we know I am definitely overstocked (LFS keeps selling me fish and never even hinted at this fact!).... what can I do.

Scenario: 30 gallons, 1 powerhead, 1 Fluval Canister 303
Crushed Coral bottom, Coral Pieces, Tank is copper treated

Fish: 1 French Angel (3 1/2") (November '03)
1 Hippo Tang (Bigger than the Angel) (Yikes!) : ( (2 weeks)
1 Anthias (4") (December '03)
2 percula clowns (June '03)
1 Royal Gramma (January '04)
1 green reef fish (December '02)

I feel so bad now. I'm planning for a 90 or 125 gallon, but we are moving so it has to wait a couple of weeks and then has to cycle. My nitrates are high (have been for awhile). 80 ppm. I did a water change 2 weeks ago and another yesterday. I get a lot of algae which is probably from that and the overcrowdedness. I truly didn't realize I was overcrowded. (Please don't think I am horrible!) I love my fish...

Anyway, I've had my French Angel for 9 or 10 months and got my tang almost 2 weeks ago. No one fights in the tank. Now my Angel is forming some white small patches (not spots) the last few days. He swims around fine and still has a great appetite so far. The copper was .15 (without adding any recently) and now I am at .3 (I am thinking of replacing my test kit b/c I know they expire and I want to be sure I am getting accurate readings. What IS their shelf life?) Anthing I can do for him?

IS THERE ANYTHING I CAN DO FOR THEM? REPLACE SOME OF THE FILTER MEDIA? WOULD REMOVING SOME SUBSTRATE OR CORAL DO ANYTHING? SHOULD I DO MORE WATER CHANGES? IS THERE A PRODUCT TO HELP WITH THE NITRATES? I ASSUME THE FISH ARE FEELING THE EFFECTS OF THE HIGH NITRATES, ALTHOUGH THEY SEEM OKAY (EXCEPT FOR "FRENCHY".) HOPEFULLY THEY WILL BE OKAY FOR ANOTHER MONTH. ANY SUGGESTIONS ARE WELCOMED.... I APPRECIATE ALL OF THE HELP YOU HAVE GIVEN FOR MY NEW TANK AND JUST WANT TO GET IT GOING AND STILL MAKE THE RIGHT DECISIONS FOR IT...

 

[TKOS]

More water changes is the fist thing to do. And more often if you are going to keep those fish together for any length of time as well. If you don't think taht bigger tank will be happening any time soon perhaps the fish store will be able to hold the tang for you until a later time.

Otherwise get the nitrates down below 20ppm. This may mean large volumn water changes. Over the next few days do 50% changes. Once the nitrates are down daily changes of a smaller amount will probably be able to cope with the heavy bioload.

 

[benjen]

Take out half the crushed coral when you do a water chang and carefully wash it in saltwater that you are throwing out to remove any trapped debris. Then put it back in. On the next water change, do the same thing with the other half. Finally clean the coral pieces the same way on the third change. If you have a water vacuum (basically a special form of siphon that you can maybe get for under $10 at WalMart), try to vacuum under the crushed coral when you take it out. The reason to wash in saltwater is so as not to kill the bacteria living on the coral, which can actually help fight the nitrates.

In the interim, do ~10 gallon (or even 15) water changes every day or two until the nitrates come down, then keep doing maybe 5 gallon changes whenever you see the nitrates go noticably over 20. This might be daily. If you can, mix up saltwater a day or more before adding it. Zero harm in letting it sit longer unless you're afraid you'll lose a pet or child in the bucket, but the longer it sits, the easier it can be on the fish if you've got any funky stuff in your tap water.

So basically the same advice as TKOS, but I suspect the crushed coral may be a large source of nitrates.

 

[mogurnda]

In principle, I agree with the above, but would maybe alter it a little. First, I don't think NO3 at 80 ppm will do significant damage in the short term, so there's no reason to be hasty. For reasons I don't need to go into here, I have had fish and inverts at >80 ppm nitrate for periods of weeks, and they have not shown signs of stress. That being said, the levels should come down, but not in such a way as to cause the fish even more distress.

I would go for 20-30% water changes every few days. Be sure that the salinity and temperature of the new SW match your tank as closely as possible. The larger changes suggested above may be fine, but I worry that the rapid change in chemistry will be a stressor.

The gunk trapped in the crushed coral is probably a good source of nitrate, as well as phosphate, and cleaning it is definitely in order. Rather than pulling the gravel out, you might use a gravel vac when you are doing water changes, sucking out as much of the debris as possible with each change.

Just my 0.02

 

[valval1029]

THANKS SO MUCH. I do use a gravel vac every time I remove water for a water change, so I will continue to do that and do them more frequently. Due to the current condition of the French Angel, I don't want to stress him too much either. I think maybe the presence of the new Tang (who is bigger than he is) may have stressed him too if this is possible... Frenchy was the dominant fish and surprisingly has not shown any agression towards the Tang.

I went to Petco for Instant Ocean and bought a new product called AmQuel+ by Kordon. I wanted to ask you about it first...
It reads:
*removes nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, chlorine & chloramines
*removes toxis organics in older water for fewer water changes
*does not interfere w/ biological filtration or nitrifying bacteria
*good for fresh and saltwater
*doesn't affect ph
---A standard dose will remove more than...
*1.2 ppm of ammonia, 2 ppm of nitrite, and 13 ppm of Nitrate, as well as detoxify chlorine/chloramines
*wait 24 hours between doses
***Can moderately reduce tank oxygen levels in water during first hours after use; make sure circulation/aeration is adequate. Can reduce chemical medication dyes such as malachite green , methlene blue, and potassium permanganate.

Do you think I should try it? (Maybe after the next water change?) If it lowers the nitrate 13 ppm each dose that would be great... Any problems here???

 

[mygreengoldfish]

I use Amquel normally for dechlorinating water but I am sure it does what it claims. It comes from a company that has been very reliable IMO for a long time. But this should not be the only way you remove nitrates.

I am wondering, what kind of protein skimmer do you have if any? A very large effecient one is required for so many fish. They are one of the best ways to keep dissolved nutrients, like nitrates, low especially if you have no live rock or refugium.

And be careful of petco. In my experiences they seem to be a lot less busy keeping fish healthy and just want to make money.

 

[mogurnda]

Do you think I should try it?

I don't know whether it will do as it says, but here's my take. A tank that crowded is generating a lot of unhealthy stuff: nitrate, phosphate, organics, whatever is coming in via the food and out of your fish. Amquel may help, but the long term solution is getting dirty water out and clean water in. If I understand correctly, you were thinking about using it in addition to water changes, so it may be somewhat helpful. Dunno.

I know you may not like this opinion much, but you may have to remove some of your fish. The new tank will take weeks, if not months, to set up properly and cycle. Your tank is currently loaded to the gills, so to speak, and there's a chance that you will lose one or more fish to disease in the meantime. You may be able to make it work with a lot of hard work, but you may not.

 

[valval1029]

all fish are dead

I put it in exactly as it stated. 1 tablespoon. Now ALL of my fish are dead. I don't even know what to say...

 

[valval1029]

When taking a closer look, the 2 clown were breathing,- now they are in a five gallon bucket with new water and a powerhead. They are perking up a little.

The LFS said I shouldn't have used the product and asked if they were showing signs of stress beforehand... which they weren't!!! And now I feel so guilty because they were fine and I killed them. I was so worried about the nitrates. He said the ones in his store are around 60 and it's hard to keep lower...

I WILL be contacting Kordon about this product...

 

[benjen]

I'm so sorry to hear this.

I would also say to do frequent water changes to help the clowns. I'm guessing the product probably took all the oxygen out of the water from what you posted above. I always thought that water conditioners were added to change water a while before you put it in the tank and hadn't heard of one you just add to the tank itself. But I wasn't familiar with the one you described and so didn't comment.

For any water changes, just use the same method you had previously used to mix saltwater. I'm hoping that a water change will decrease whatever toxin is in the water and may give any survivors a better chance.