unknown fish sickness, also killing shrimp

T

Tulipa

AC Members
Aug 18, 2006
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Hi all,

I have a 55g freshwater tank with five zebra danios, four (now three) neon dwarf gouramis, four siamese algae eaters, and a number of cherry shrimps and red ramshorns snails; this setup has been stable with all these fish for about two months. There is also an african dwarf frog, added about a month ago. The fish eat flake and occasionally peas or sinkers; the frog gets a small amount of brine shrimp every other day.

Since the frog was added, I've had two honey dwarf gouramis die on me - both about two weeks ago. Yesterday, I noticed my cherry shrimp start to look listless and found a dead one. Today, a neon gourami died and many shrimps are looking unhappy.

The sick fish get a grayish cast and a noticeable belly bulge on one side. They tend to hang out at the bottom of the tank, head down and tail vertical. On one honey gourami I noticed what seemed like an unusual poop or extrusion of white, possibly a worm?

Possibly related to this is a recent algae bloom in the tank; the water is cloudy and pea-soupy. I have this problem in a similar tank from time to time - that tank has not had any fish deaths, but the water just gets soupy. I don't know how to control these blooms or if it is related to the deaths in my tank.

Does anyone know what I might be dealing with and how to cure it? I've read a lot of diagnostic sites but none seem to describe the symptoms I'm seeing, in addition to cherry shrimp deaths. I have copper to dose with - I used this on hair algae in this same tank a few months back (the cherry shrimp were not killed or even upset by it) but I don't want to use it unless I know what I'm doing.

I'm sad and scared for my tank. I hope this question is ok in this forum, and that someone can help.

Thanks.
 
EDIT: new symptoms

EDIT: I've discovered that another gourami in the tank has white lesions on its head and dorsal fin, where the scales are missing. One of the head lesions appears opened and has red streaks in it. This fish doesn't display the symptoms that my already-dead fish did, of grayish color and bloated belly. I'm trying to diagnose this but am not sure yet. Sounds like I have some kind of parasite infection, though. Does anyone have a preferred medication they could recommend?

Thanks.
 
Thanks so much, rosita. I've purchased some Jungle Anti-Bacteria Food - the picture on the front of it even looks exactly like my sick fish. It is supposed to be good for internal and external infections. I've also purchased some Aquarium Pharmaceuticals General Cure anti-parasitic fish medication, which treats a wide variety of things and contains both metronidazole and praziquantel.

My next question is, can I medicate with both the food and the medicine at the same time, or would that be too much and endanger my tank? I'd like to treat the obviously sick fish directly with food but the whole tank also needs dosing. Any advice on this would be very helpful.
 
Tulipa said:
EDIT: I've discovered that another gourami in the tank has white lesions on its head and dorsal fin, where the scales are missing. One of the head lesions appears opened and has red streaks in it. This fish doesn't display the symptoms that my already-dead fish did, of grayish color and bloated belly. I'm trying to diagnose this but am not sure yet. Sounds like I have some kind of parasite infection, though. Does anyone have a preferred medication they could recommend?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
I agree, sounds like a parasite infection but it also sounds like you have a couple of things going on. Your one gourami with the bloated belly most likely had dropsy, often a symptom of a parasite infection-but the lesions sound bacterial and could be what is affecting the shrimp. Most likely introduced via the frog if you’ve had no problems before now.

You can try both the food and the medicine at the same time, but in my experience the fish flat-out refuse to eat the medicated food. You could try dipping it in garlic first and see if that helps stimulate their appetites, I didn’t have much luck, but maybe you will. Hope the fish get better, keep us posted!
 
Hi all,

Over the weekend I treated my tank with a course of "General Cure" anti-parasitic fish medication (made by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals). Following instructions, I dosed the tank once and then again 48 hours later. Tomorrow night it is supposed to get a 25% water change. The medication contains Metronidazole and Praziquantel and is supposed to treat flukes, HITH, velvet, lice and other parasites.

I am also feeding anti-bacterial food, but while the Algae Eaters love it, the sick Gouramis are not interested.

I don't know when I should be noticing a change for the better since medicating the tank, but I haven't seen one yet. All three of my dwarf Gouramis are ill; one has white body lesions, one has fin holes, and one has an affected eye with lesions and puffiness. The lesions don't appear to be furry, yellowish, or greenish, nor are they limited to fins, gills, or head. I'm having a hard time diagnosing this illness.

My cherry shrimp are still dying. The Algae Eaters appear to be unaffected and one or two Danios appear to have small spots but do not appear unhappy or otherwise visibly ill.

Do I need a strictly anti-bacterial medication? Will it kill off my remaining shrimps and the snails in my tank? I feel like I should've seen some improvement by now; OTOH my fish-keeping partner tells me I am obsessing. What should I do at this point? Thanks in advance for help and suggestions.
 
hello. a few questions. you said this started a month after you added the frog, did the algae blooms start after the frog addition? and also, the other tank, is this the same kind of algae bloom, did it start before the frog, the same time, or after? this might be related somehow and have you taken anything from one tank and added it to the other before this happened? and about the frog, did it or does it show any signs of being sick? a month after you added it is enough time for a parasitic outbreak to develope and it looks like it trashed your tank, or maybe both of them. and have you isolated the frog at all, a q-tank maybe? your algae eaters may not show any signs but they might still be a carrier of whatever you have. your invertibrates appear to be affected and may be hard to treat or could be carrying whatever you have as well. copper is known to kill invertabrates and it is also known to be very hard, if not impossible to remove from substrates and will remain toxic to invertabrates.

im not trying in any way to tell you what you should or should not be doing, but i am trying to help you pinpoint what and where things went to hell in your tank, then if you can figure out what happened and what you have, you can be better equipped to treat it. but it sounds to me it started with this frog and it sounds like you dont know what you have, so your trying to treat everything. look up the frog and see what kind of diseases it might be prone to get if thats is possible. or go back to the lfs where you got the frog and make them tell you if they had an outbreak in their tanks.
 
Hi there,

To answer your questions:

- The algae bloom started in the currently sick tank after the frog was added, yes.

- The other tank also has the same kind of algae bloom, pea-soupy water. However, nothing from this tank has gone into the sick tank, or vice versa. The frog has only ever been in the currently sick tank. The other tank with bloom has no sick fish and has had nothing new added or anything changed in it for several months now.

- The frog has shown no signs of illness since we purchased it.

- We don't have a q-tank, shamefully.

The shrimp are definitely affected as they are dying off. The gouramis still show signs of illness, but nothing other than shrimps have died recently.

Since my partner and I strongly disagreed about me medicating the tank, and he feels it is his tank (it is in our bedroom), I'm not allowed to do anything anymore. He is a hands-off type and wants to wait a while before taking any kind of further action. I don't agree with this at all, but I don't want to fight with him, so...

I have suggested to him that a blackout might help with the bloom; he doesn't think that a nitrate problem is causing it, but thinks a blackout would be very bad for our plants, and that the bloom would just come back since we don't know the source. His current treatment for bloom is to turn off one of the tank's two T5 lights, which are on ~12 hours/day. He's been doing this for a while and the plants are starting to show holes but I personally don't really see a reduction in bloom.

I will definitely be looking up the frog and seeing what kind of diseases it could possibly have brought into our tank. I wholeheartedly trust our LFS where we purchase our fish; they have the cleanest tanks I have ever seen, they quarantine for at least a week before selling, and when asked, did not have any problems with sick frogs.

Thanks for the tips and thoughts - much appreciated!
 
sick gouramis - update

Hi all,

After talking to various people, it was suggested that I try Metronidazole for Hexamita. I dosed my tank 3 days ago, but haven't yet seen a change. Since then, there has been a 25% water change. The fish continue to get anti-bacterial food but I'm not sure that's helping either. No other fish appear sick, though all the cherry shrimp have died as far as I can tell. I am also suffering from green water but that isn't too uncommon for where I live, and it's more annoying than anything.

Since I still haven't successfully diagnosed and treated my fish, I took some pictures in the hopes someone here could look and maybe tell me what they think.

These first two show the sore on the tail, which was bright red and is now edged with white.
sickfish2.jpg

(plus one more)

These second two show the hole in his head, which has always been just white and somewhat puffy; now it is starting to seem cottony maybe, though that is recent. You can also see a hole in his top fin on this first one. Both sick fish have these holes.
sickfish3.jpg

(plus one more)

(Apologies for the hazy quality of these pics.)

Has anyone seen these symptoms before? I don't want to keep stabbing in the dark - I want to cure it. I just can't discern the right diagnosis.

Thanks.
 
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