Sick? Starry night cichlid - Paratilapia bleekeri

T

tobeuo

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Jul 25, 2009
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I moved all my fish from a 75 to a 110 and my poor starry night has stopped eating like before, he used to wiggle back and forth when I passed the tank anxious for a treat, but now he's rather lethargic :( I really hope he makes it, any suggestions?

His symptoms:

  • He used to eat cichlid sticks, now all I see him eat is a pellet now and then from the bottom which is unusual because he used to always hang out at the top of the tank and beg me for food. He ignores all other foods.
  • He has become more aggressive than before, picking on my tinfoil barb nearly twice his size.
  • He has started hiding in a tree near the bottom of the tank or just hanging out near the overflow on the new filter.
  • He used to be full of personality, now is lethargic and shoots me dirty looks.
Recent changes:

  • Moved from a 75g tank to a 110g.
  • Got a new wet/dry filtration system, was using canister.
  • Got mostly new water.
  • Gravel not yet fully moved from old tank.

Precautions and Effort taken:

  • The tank change was pretty difficult because I had to put the 110 in the same spot the 75 used to be, I transferred 25g of the old water into a cooler, pumped in as much water that remained in the 75 as possible in the 110 while still being able to move it, pulled the switcharoo and then pumped the water from the cooler back in. I estimate I got about 45 gallons of the old water into the new tank. I then filled the rest with well water. I live in the country and my well is fed by a spring.
  • I made sure the temperatures were the same and then transferred the fish.
  • Today I added ph balance to the water as I tested and noticed the ph was low.
  • I've tried feeding him brine shrimp, blood worms, and his sticks without interest. They will even hit him in the face and he ignores them.
  • I tested the nitrate/trite, hardness, KH and GH levels and all are good.

He has no visible injury or infections. The transfer was 1 week ago.

I don't know what else to do, I am going to try earthworms shortly because he loves those. Any suggestions are appreciated!

p.s. my old water was rather dirty and all of the fish flourished, I have read a few places that starry nights love dirty water, could mine be too clean? My new filter is a lot more efficient than the cannister.

Thanks,
Chris

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Can you post specific parameters for those you listed as well as ammonia? Just to be sure...also, what are you using as a test kit?

Did you transfer any media from the existing tank? A low percentage of the bacteria colony actually resides in the water column, they attach to solid surfaces. Gravel will help but you will not have enough bacteria to support the full bioload right away.
 
I used a 5 in 1 test strip, GH/KH were 120, nitrate was 60, nitrite was 2, ph was under 6 for some reason.
I transferred all of the decor from the old aquarium minus about 50% of the gravel. I will begin transfer of that today.

One other symptom is that he is losing color, turning pale and greenish. I don't think he will make it if I can't get him to eat really soon.

I just noticed a new symptom, his eyes are pretty cloudy. I have transferred him to a new aquarium that is smaller and well established.
 
Last edited:
tobeuo said:
I used a 5 in 1 test strip, GH/KH were 120, nitrate was 60, nitrite was 2, ph was under 6 for some reason.

I transferred all of the decor from the old aquarium minus about 50% of the gravel. I will begin transfer of that today.

One other symptom is that he is losing color, turning pale and greenish. I don't think he will make it if I can't get him to eat really soon.

I just noticed a new symptom, his eyes are pretty cloudy. I have transferred him to a new aquarium that is smaller and well established.
Click to expand...
Right now, I think you need to start doing daily water changes on his tank. Also, get a good liquid test kit, those strips are terribly inaccurate.
 
He is still not eating, I hope he eats soon. He seems to be doing a little better in the smaller tank, the PH was 7 on that one. He is moving around more but still uninterested in food, I am going to get him some feeder fish today since he seems to be chasing stuff around, maybe they will interest him.

I have begun daily water changes, thanks for the advice. 10% at a time.
 
I would like to commend the excellent way you presented the information regarding your issue for us. It's also great that you have given you fish larger quarters, too. :)

We need a bit more info, though.

How many fish are in the tank and what kinds, specifically.

What has been your water change and maintenance schedule in the 75 prior to the move: Frequency and volumn. Vacuuming frequency.

Feeding schedule and types of food.

More information on the filtration. Tank size rating.

Planted tank or plastic?

type of heater and temp you keep your tank.

How long was the 75 gallon set up prior to the move, and how long did you have the fish that you now have.

Did you have any recent additions of fish to the tank?

The answers to those questions will help.

I strongly recommend that you get a liquid test kit ASAP. The strips will give false readings all the time. A good liquid test kit is API Master. You need to see what the ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, and ph are really doing.

You especially need to keep an eye on ammonia and nitrite. Your nitrites reading of 2 is deadly, if accurate, and is causing him to suffocate. Nitrites bind with the hemoglobin in the bloodstream and prevent the O2 uptake in the gills, suffocating him. He's not getting enough oxygen.

You possibly have detectable ammonia, too, which is damaging as well.

Pristine water will help keep your fish healthy and keep their immune systems strong. Living in water that has ammonia and nitrites in it will weaken the immune systems of your fish, leaving them susceptible to infection and disease, and will cause much stress and suffering.

You need to do bigger water changes than 10% and especially until you can get the parameters safe for your fish. With a nitrite of 2 I would do at least 50% now and test again to see what it is.

Since the strips are unreliable there's no telling what the true parameters are and the readings may be off, but if you're still showing nitrites and ammonia do another 50% and then tomorrow if you can get the liquid test kit you will be able to know what's really going on in there.

I think the tank is not cycled. You have a new tank, new filtration that has no beneficial bacteria in the biofilter media, unless you seeded it with bacteria from an established tank.

You didn't move much substrate from the other tank (which also
has beneficial bacteria on it) and so the bacteria you need to break down the ammonia and nitrites are not there.

The nitrate readings are probably because you had a lot in your 75 gallon, or you may have nitrates in your tap if you live anywhere near farming operations.

I started out with the strips, too. I didn't know they weren't accurate, but the fish gurus here on AC educated me about it. You absolutely must know what the parameters are in the tank so you can know what is happening when a fish is not behaving normally, or begins to look sick.

Tomorrow, if at all possible, get the liquid test kit. Wallyworld doesn't have it but usually the lfs does, or petco or petsmart, for sure.

Also, do not use chemical adjusters for ph. They cause more harm than good. Ph is not as big an issue as most people think. Don't worry about the ph for now.

When you moved the fish you moved water, but the beneficial bacteria is not really in the water column, so with a new tank and new fiter you wouldn't have all the bb that you need in the new tank to handle the ammonia and nitrites.

Get some of the gravel from the 75 in there as soon as possible, gently so you don't stir up too much gunk.

If you have an established tank, take some of the filter media in it out long enough to squeeze some liquid from it into your bio filter media in your new filter media. This will seed the new filter so the beneficial bacteria will start to grow in the new tank.

If you're on well water you don't have chlorine or chloramines, but it would still be helpful to get Prime or Amquel Plus conditioner because they detoxify nitrites and ammonia for about 24 hours, giving you time to do the water changes. Check the label on those to see if one or the other also removes heavy metals, which you could have in well water.

You must keep the ammonia at 0, nitrites 0 and nitrates around 20 ppm. GH and KH are good to know, really, but the strips can't be trusted. The API Master kit has everything for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and ph, but the gh and kh kits have to be purchased separately.

You spend more money up front on the liquid kit but in the long run you save tons of money. My first kit lasted six months, and I tested every day and many times a day on occasion when I was having spikes in parameters. When I got strips I had to buy a bottle or two a month.

On the issue of ph, there are safer more natural ways to stablilze the ph than chemical adjusters. Stay away from those.

I hope your cichlid feels better soon. Don't worry so much about food as fish can go a week or two easily without food, unless he's been off his food for longer than that.

I didn't see you when you first joined AC so I would like to say welcome, and we're glad you joined us.:welcome:
 
Hi all, sorry for the delayed response, I just saw my buddy pass away. I watched him take his last breath :(

Here are a few more symptoms... he began losing skin and scales, became very pale, then started floating upside down. I am concerned about my Pacu now as he seems to be afflicted by the same thing. He was upside down yesterday and I did a 50% water change and today he looks much better but is still uninterested in food. I just completed another 40% water change, the tank is 110g.

Hello Melody and thank you for the warm welcome, I will do my best to provide as much information as possible:

Unfortunately I switched their food recently and their setup, I was using New Life Spectrum Lg Fish Formula 3mm sinking pellets feeding twice daily. All my fish would scoop them up aggressively in a minute or two. The cichlid I was feeding 2-3 small cichlid sticks per feeding. Every now and then I'll drop in a wafer for the pacu and my pleco. I had all of my fish for about a year without any incident, it happened right when I bought the new tank and switched food. Now I am using HBH african cichlid sinking pellets. They were cheap and are sold at petsmart.

Water change/vacuum is once a week, about 15-20%

Here is my filter: http://www.tplastech.com/amiracle/filters_advancedsl.htm
I'm not sure which model but it is likely SL-250B

The tank was planted but I had to take out the plants when I put the PH stuff in.

I recently upped the temp a little too, I keep it at 72 but was keeping it around 68. I added a heater (my other couldn't handle the load).

75g was setup for about a year, the last fish I added to it was a small channel catfish about a month ago, prior to that it was established (with no additions) for about 6 months.

The fish I have in the 110:
Pacu 12", Mud Catfish 8", Channel Catfish 4", Tin foil barb 6", Chinese Algae Eater 5", pleco 15", 2 Mystery Snails

None of them fight and I assume because of their small size there is ample room in a 110 gallon aquarium. They all flourished in the 75 and seemed very happy... I am regretting this upgrade :(

I will try to get a liquid test kit tomorrow if at all possible. Thanks for your elaborate response, hopefully the pacu will make it. None of the other fish seem affected.

Regards,
Chris
 
One note, I did an online diagnostic of symptoms and most of the things that popped up were parasites, but it was asking me for autopsy information which I can't get w/out a microscope. The filter was used by someone else but was dry so I doubt there were parasites in it. The carbon pouch however was still wet and could have contained something. There are so many factors involved I don't think I'll be able to figure this out without doing the autopsy.
 
I'm so sorry for your loss, Chris. I think you're going to have to work hard to keep everyone healthy until this tank cycles. If you have any filter media from the 75 that you could squeeze into your new tank filter this will help jump-start your cycle, but if it dried out then the bacteria are probably dead.

Tomorrow when you get the kit, test your water and if you find detectable ammonia and/or nitrites do water changes until you bring them to 0.

Keeping the water pristine is vital, and you will really have to stay on top of that by testing every day and doing water changes as needed to keep the ammonia at 0, nitrites 0, and then the nitrates at around 20ppm.

I'm afraid you're way over stocked, even though you have a big tank it's not big enough for the fish you have in there. The pacu and the pleco together in that tank would be stretching it already, and soon it would be way to small as both of those guys get huge.

Channel catfish and mud catfish also get huge. I'm don't mean to sound critical, I just want to help, but the number and size of fish you have are going to be a real problem for you soon.

Some of the other big fish keepers will chime in on this to help regarding the stock list you have, and offer some suggestions in this regard as to what size tank you need to have all those guys. You really need to rehome a lot of those fish or you're going to have more illnesses and deaths, I'm sorry to have to say.

I only wish the best for you. Please keep us posted on how things are going.
 
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