Neutral Regulator and Algae, What to do???

avoxo

avoxo

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Jan 25, 2003
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North Providence, RI
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The water out of my tap has always had a high ph, my high range ph tester is an Aquarium Pharmaceuticals and the readings are always 8.8, so I think it is above that number. The kh I am not sure but I think that it is low because the ph would crash all the time until I started using Seachem's Neutral Regulator. Now I have been using this stuff for over 10 years and have had great success with it. The only draw back would be the algae but over time I have found that it is very beneficial to my systems. I have taken care of Oscars, Jack Dempseys and Goldfish over the years.

I have a 20-gallon long tank with a 20-watt light running for over ten years and it has a nice layer of the green algae on the back walls and gravel. I have a 55-gallon with a 40-watt bulb which has been running on and off for those same ten years. In this tank the only algae that I can grow is the pea soup type. The lights are on at the same times and I change the water at the same time, with the same water mixture. Both tank are well filtered. I have also been on Wetmans website TSA and learned what type of algae it is growing. BTW great website, I wish I found this site years ago.


I would like to get rid of the pea soup type algae and grow the stuff that sticks to the walls. What do I need to do? Is it as easy as adding more wattage or do I need to go a different route. I would also like to know another way to lower the ph besides using phosphates or peat if there is any? The reason I am asking is I would like to get a bigger tank, 125 gallon or bigger, I would like to be able to work out the kinks with the 55-gallon before I upgrade.

Thanks Avoxo
 
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I would try pulling some water from the clean tank and adding it to the pea soup--it could be just a matter of establishing the microfauna that consumes the free floating algaes. The clear tank likely has a healthy population to share. Adding some hardy plants may help as well--anything to consume or compete with teh nuisance algae for nutrients. If all else fails, I'd do a large water change, and give treat it to a complete blackout for 3 days. Another big water change, and careful cleaning. This is the more drastic approach, which is why I'd try other things first.

As for the pH...Many people use RO water in a mixture of their tap water to reduce the pH. This requires monitoring until you know what ratio to use to achieve a specific pH, as well as monitoring to prevent a pH crash (hardness levels will shift using the RO in addition to the pH, but regular water changes can usually prevent hardness depletion related crashes in pH). CO2 supplementation will lower pH, but shouldn't be used in an unplanted tank, and carries it's own concerns with it. I'm a fan of loading up on driftwood, but I happen to like the tea stained appearance.

Others might have better advice--I tend to prefer not messing with the pH much, since stable at any level is better than widely fluctuating.
 
Many neutral regulators use phosphates to soften the water and allow pH to drop. Adding enough phosphate to bring your water down from above 8 makes your water perfect for growing algae.

You can try treating the symptom: blacking out the tank, getting a UV unit, etc., but unless you find a way to lower your pH without adding all that phosphate, those will be band-aid solutions. I think O-girl's suggestion of RO is a good idea.

Do you have readings of pH, KH and GH on tap water that's been allowed to sit out overnight? That might help us give you reasonable solution.

Jim
 
Providence, RI is on granite bedrock, not limestone-- I'm pretty sure-- and a pH of 8.8 doesn't sound right. Natural carbonate buffers tends to stabilize pH around 8.3, so your alkalinity would have to be even higher...

Call the water utility for their average pH readings. And why not re-test with a mid-range pH kit, centering on 7.0.

Your pH used to crash, you say. A "pH crash" is another symptom of light buffering, which makes the pH 8.8 sound unlikely. It is a fact that pH "crashes" are due to quantities of organic acids added to the water that overwhelm the alkalinity. They aren't symptoms of weak buffer so much as of unrinsed filters, too heavy bio-load, etc. Instead of siphoning out detritus, people prefer to strengthen the pH buffer...

I think you need to reapproach your basic fishkeeping with a fresh orientation.
 
Test scores for water that has not been treated and has been sitting for almost 24 hours, the test kit that I am using is the Fresh Water Master Test Kit and is less than a year old.
GH 53.7 ppm
KH less than 17.9 ppm
PH using the mid range test solution is 7.6
PH using the high range solution is 8.8, both are the highest readings on the color charts.

One thing that I should of said in the original post is the 55 has at least 2-3 inches of medium sized gravel were as the 20 has only a half inch or so of a smaller size. Should I remove some of the gravel?

As for Wetman's quote to reapproching basic fish keeping I am not sure what you mean??? I will agree with you that in my early years of fish keeping I made the same mistakes that many of us did, over stocking, over feeding, and lack of information. I do know that the ph crashes were attributed to those reasons. Please tell me what I need to do differently?

Avoxo
 
avoxo, please remember that we're all trying to interpret the situation, and your fishkeeping level, just working from a few lines of post. So if I underestimated your experience, please forgive me.


The buffering ingredient in Seachem's Neutral Regulator is a phosphate, as you must know from reading the label over the years. The PO4 is counted as if it were carbonate when you test for "KH" or alkalinity. Not everyone realizes that. So you have an inflated number for "KH.".

High phosphates are often considered an encouragement to algae, as you've read often.

I hope this isn't too obvious.

P.S. I looked through the Providence RI water utility site and I found this note:
"As a large system, Providence Water was also required to conduct a corrosion control study to determine the most effective treatment practice for controlling corrosion. The results of this study indicated that the most practical (and cost effective) approach for optimizing treatment would be the addition of calcium oxide, added to the treatment train just prior to coagulant addition. This practice has resulted in increased alkalinity in water at the consumer's tap, and in time should result in even lower corrosion rates for both lead and copper."

Calcium oxide (CaO) or quicklime is the source of your bizarrely high pH. But you probably knew that. The lime forms a hydroxide in water ("slaked" lime), and the water in your tap is depleted of carbon dioxide.

Instead of trying to force down the pH with phosphate buffering, why not aerate the water for a day or so in a bucket? CO2 from the atmosphere will diffuse in, forming calcium carbonate, and the pH will drop to the 7's.


.
 
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Thank you everyone for your advice. No offense was taken Wetman, my fault for not explaining myself better. The reason why I started to use the regulator was I called Prov. water and spoke with a woman who was into fish keeping as well, she did tell me that they added something to the system to prevent corrosion in the pipes and recommended the regulator. That was over ten years ago. I hope it is as simple as throwing an air stone into the tote, (keeping fingers crossed).

If the ph does come down from just aerating, it will continue to do that once I put back into the tanks because of the KH being below 17 ppm. Any recommendations on how to buff up the water naturally instead of using commercial products?

It is 11am and I just threw in an airstone into a bucket of water, lets see what happens.

Thank you
Avoxo
 
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Well it is 24 hours after I put in the air stone in the pail and the ph has gone downto 7.8, very impressive Wetman , great call on this one. Thanks again. I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks :rolleyes:.

Avoxo
 
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