my favorite pet store under fire?????

well it seems the dust has finally settled on this issue, but it did bring up some interesting points...many simply do not know what a puppy mill is, so they lump nearly all breeders under one large umbrella, and call them a puppy mill, Why? spite? ignorance? the effect is the same, they dont like it so no one else should be allowed to do it.
Many ( i will refer to them as activists ) additionally intentionaly keep the lines blurred, that way they cannot be proved wrong, and they can make any statement and hold it up as fact totally berift of any true logic or fact.

All mass breeders are puppy mills, and all pet stores purchese from these breeders so all pet stores support puppy mills so all pet stores should be shut down.
Simple and tidy
totally incorrect, but simple and tidy none the less.

And none should take this as all pet stores only buy from licensed distributers, im sure some do not.

but it is a simple enough task to find out, ask them for the paper work and see if the distributer is in fact licensed.

A small amount of research yeilded the following link: http://www.canismajor.com/dog/puppymil.html
very good reading, it does however contain very few pictures so i expect a few will simply skip reading it. It is however very enlightening,

a few snippets:
From the Article noted above...

Twenty years ago, people knew that a "puppy mill" was a substandard kennel where unhealthy, overbred dogs were kept in horrendous conditions.

Today it's not so easy. In the last decade of the 20th Century, activist groups began to broaden the term to cover just about any kennel that they didn't like. As a result, commercial kennels and hobby breeders with more than an arbitrary number of dogs or litters have become targets for anti-breeding groups that lobby for laws to restrict these law-abiding operations.

These organizations stir up public support for breeding restrictions and high license fees by deliberately blurring the lines between responsible breeding operations and real puppy mills. They use emotional rhetoric and pictures of dirty kennels and sickly dogs to imply that most or all breeders will subject their dogs to abusive lives unless they are regulated.

A fair enough assesment i would think but as the saying goes Wait Theres more


Additional text from noted Link:


So, how do we evaluate those bills and make sure that substandard kennels are cleaned up? First we have to define "puppy mill." Is it . . .
  • A dirty, trashy place where one or several breeds of dogs are kept in deplorable conditions with little or no medical care and puppies are always available?
  • Any high-volume kennel?
  • A clean place where several breeds of dogs are raised in adequate conditions and the breeder usually or always has puppies for sale?
  • A place where a single breed of dog is raised in acceptable conditions and puppies are usually or often available?
  • A place where lots of dogs are raised, where breeding is done solely for financial gain rather than protection of breed integrity, and where puppies are sold to brokers or to pet stores?
The answer depends on who you ask. . . .
A hobby breeder dedicated to promoting and protecting a particular breed or two might consider all of the above kennels to be puppy mills. Animal shelter and rescue workers who deal daily with abandoned, neglected, or abused dogs might agree. Operators of clean commercial kennels, licensed by the US Department of Agriculture or by state law, will strongly disagree, for the very mention of "puppy mill" damages their business and that of the pet stores they deal with.
John Q Dog Owner probably thinks of puppy mills as those places exposed on 20/20, Dateline, or Geraldo or pictured on fundraising pamphlets by the Humane Society of the US and other animal rights charities. He has seen the cameras pan back and forth over trash, piles of feces, dogs with runny noses and oozing sores, dogs crammed into shopping carts and tiny coops, rats sharing dirty food bowls and dry dishes. He has seen the kennel owner captured on tape, dirty, barely articulate, and ignorant of dog care, temperament, genetic health, or proper nutrition. But is the television crew simply seeking the sensational and applying these appalling conditions to the entire dog producing industry? Are the photos on the fundraising appeals accurate depictions of the majority of high volume kennels or are they used to generate disgust for breeders and dollars for treasuries?
To be clear, we at Dog Owner's Guide believe that kennel conditions and dog health, not numbers or profit motive, determine whether a kennel should be called a puppy mill.

The last line really says it all,

If we where to look strictly to the governing bodys we would be dealing with organisations such as AKC ( in the US ) and the British Kennel Club,
in the above mentined article you will find links to AKC and their requirements. The BKC on the other hand is the oldest Kennel club in the world and is THE governing body for the UK note:

From Wikipedia:
The Kennel Club ("KC") is a kennel club based in London and Aylesbury, England.
Founded on 4 April 1873, the club is the oldest of the world’s all-breed kennel clubs[citation needed]. It is the governing body for dogs in the UK and its primary objective is 'to promote in every way, the general improvement of dogs'. It was the first official registry of purebred dogs in the world, and its annual registrations in the early 2000s average 280,000[

This is the same kennel club many aspire to and arguably the world nexus of "respectable breeders"

Well maybe not, these type are more concerned with the perfection of the breed standard to the exclusion of health and well being of the very animals they espouse to care so very much for:
Link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedigree_Dogs_Exposed
The standards they require all "respectable" breeders to breed to
after reading only half the article, i had to stop, Their practices are truly disgusting, and all done under the guise of "responsible breeding"
Thank goodness our own AKC does not operate that cruely.
But they ( AKC are certianly no angels when it comes to " Breed Purity"

So next time you pass that Shelter in favor of your neighborhood breeder, remember what Those breeders are all about.

Rescue that dog ( or cat )

Oh yeah and remember the Pet stores that sell dogs and cats primarily deal with breeders that have to jump through federal hoops that the "neighborhood breeder" dont .

It is the sanctmonious / activist types that in their ignorance of what and how the responsible "Mass" breeders operate and would paint them black as the scourge of petdom, where in reality it is the commercial ( yes the neighborhood types) that typically falsify and outright lie to your face as you adopt that " perfect dog" from that "respectable" breeder whose only claim to respectablity is " they dont do it for profit", of course not, it is to expensive.
 
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well it seems the dust has finally settled on this issue, but it did bring up some interesting points...

I don't think the dust will EVER settle on this issue!

many simply do not know what a puppy mill is, so they lump nearly all breeders under one large umbrella, and call them a puppy mill, Why? spite? ignorance? the effect is the same, they dont like it so no one else should be allowed to do it.

This seems to be the core of what is making you upset---that we're lumping everything but the backyard breeder into one category and calling them "puppy mills." I don't think that's what we've been saying. It's certainly not what I've personally been saying. No one is arguing that every backyard breeder is blameless, or innately superior to a larger operation. You seem very upset that other people are making generalizations, but you also seem to be making quite a few yourself.

Many ( i will refer to them as activists ) additionally intentionaly keep the lines blurred, that way they cannot be proved wrong, and they can make any statement and hold it up as fact totally berift of any true logic or fact.

You are doing some "lumping" of your own here and it is just as unfair as what you are accusing us of. This goes along with the line in your signature, "Animal Rights Activists - just another way to say Terrorist." Are there crazy people who do crazy things in the name of animal rights? Absolutely. Crazy people do crazy things in the name of just about everything---religion, security, "family values," etc. Are all (or even most of) those who stand up for animal rights terrorists? Absolutely not. "Terrorist" has become a buzzword that people like to throw at each other, and I find it deeply offensive that you would apply it to all animal rights activists everywhere.

All mass breeders are puppy mills, and all pet stores purchese from these breeders so all pet stores support puppy mills so all pet stores should be shut down.
Simple and tidy
totally incorrect, but simple and tidy none the less.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I object to the sale of puppies or kittens anywhere, regardless of the size of the operation. In my opinion, there are far too many dogs and cats euthanized every day for anyone to be breeding them intentionally. Unless the health of one of my own pets is depending on the purchase of some certain item and I have no other choice, I will not patronize a store that sells dogs or cats. Period. I don't care where they get them.

So next time you pass that Shelter in favor of your neighborhood breeder...

Rescue that dog ( or cat )

I guess that's one thing we can agree on.
 
:rofl::rofl:

ahh cmon now, we dont know that for sure, that doesn't stop them, but that is expected.

CelloDaisy:
I don't think the dust will EVER settle on this issue!

Point taken, and correctly so.

And dont get me wrong, i have nothing against those that support and defend Animal welfare be they activists or not, animal rights on the other hand is way beyond the realm of reasoning.

Your stance to do no business with any shop that carries pups of kits is.. your stance, and nothing wrong with that and is admiral, it is however your stance.
Animal Rights activists on the other hand stance is not only do they find that repulsive, they believe it is equally repulsive for even a blind person to own a seeing eye dog ( a DIRECT QUOTE FROM Peta BTW )

My Ire as you put it and that of many others that truly care should be raised towards those that hide behind this "caring" front, while at the same time they Kill dogs and Cats that are easily adoptable, just because they do not wish to expend a single penny of their Ad budget towards animal care.

Or by those that think ALL Breeders are misbegotten dregs of humanity especially the back yard breeders ( link avail on request )

Now don't take this as a personal affront on your beliefs, i would more peg you as an animal welfare type of person, and none of this is meant in a personal manner, only to educate, and expose just like the animal rights types do, they just don't like it done back at them. And sometimes that means ya have to thump some on the head and say, wake up smell the bacon, look at what they are really doing.
allowed to run unchecked these types will kill the entire pet industry. Yes that means our fish as well.

How many are even aware that a well meaning group attempted to pass a bill to prevent the sale of certain types of fish ( Arowana's) because of their expansion nature. When finally in the hands of the politicians this bill had by then morphed into a bill that will prevent the importation, sale and distribution of all non native tropical fish in the US.
in it's strictest interpretation only one fresh water fish would be allowed.
of course we could take to raising carp, and bass etc those are native.

This bill very nearly passed on it's first attempt, and it is not dead yet.

Can anyone imagine the effect this would have on our aquarium hobby?
it would be total decimation. But hey the person(s) responsible will be happy, of course they are not aquarists either. This way they do not have to walk by the disgusting tank displays enroute to buy.... well still not sure what they are after in a pet store, they sure dont like anything in them.
Oh thats right, they get their live stock from Mail Order, you know FISH FARMS, hey everyone knows fish where meant to fly and take OTR trips.
and it is no big deal that fish are raised in the very conditions so many vigorously denounced and label as "Puppy Mills".


So again, dont take anything said here personally, just for the sake of the animals, stand up for their WELFARE leave the rights issues to the Scientifically Illiterate ( a direct quote from Greenpeace co founder ) referring to Greenpeace's animal rights activist stance.

your actions to not do business with a pet store will have little to no effect, instead get out there, and expose the puppy mills ( be very sure of where you tread there however as the legal "mass breeders" can, should and will file legal action for any libelous statements.

I have personally caused two puppy farms ( both in NH btw Exeter, and Hampton Falls ) to go out of business, i have also seen the extremes some mass breeders ( Billerica Ma, Springfield Ma, Melbourne Fla, PalmBay Fl) will go to to assure the pets avail for shops, notice no where did i say all mass breeders of all shops, there will always be those that slip through the cracks, but overall the mass breeders have a far Superior track record in animal welfare than most Local shelters ( short of some no kill shelters ) and nearly all national orgs ( HSUS , Peta, ELF, ALF etc etc etc)

I have also seen the effects of AKC and BK Breed standards enforcement. and watch as perfectly health dogs are culled ( that would be, put down for the squeamish or PC types ).
And yes i have also worked with a few back yard breeders, they happen to breed and raise German Shepard's for many town and county LEO's
These same dogs per AKC standards would be "Culled" just due to their aggressive nature alone, but a desired trait for what they are bred to do.
But still lumped in as a Puppy Mill or the even lower species, back yard breeders.
Apparently if you do not have a wall of awards, you are not fit to Breed dogs, even accidentally with out being labeled a menace to society

Today it is dogs and and Cats, tomarrow FISH and birds, unchecked that is how it will go.
 
Okay, folks. Lets get the thread back on track about the OP's LFS having some cleaning issues and save the pet breeding issues for a more proper forum.

Thanks! :)


Last time folks..thanks.
 
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