Mafia 58-

[noodles62]

Noods, I find it interesting that ZS has posted less than the moderator at this point, yet you don't mention him at all. You chose your reason for voting me for being quiet??? Strange indeed.

I vote to lynch MC- MC made a post about Woody that he ended with a vote for me. Thats a scummy move, and he has not addressed it although I asked twice why he was voting for me.

My watchlist:

MC -scumbag extrodinare
Rich- a feeling
ZS- a normally active and helpful player, Z literally has less posts than the mod on Day 2. Laying low Z??? Maybe you'll post if you start seeing your name in bold more often.
Noods- Noods is evil every game I think

Though Kashta's theories about me are "tinfoil" as Zaffy would say, I will admit openly I have her leaning innocent at this point.

Just checking in before my next meeting - Annie, I had not mentioned Z as he was lumped into the "others" category along with MC until I get more time for futher review. I am very concerned with low posters however the reason I voted for you was not a low post count - it was the way you vote and run, lay back, pop in when attention is brought to you and then back off again. not really adding too much to help either. i unfortunately do not have time to get more detailed but if you have any other questions or i will get back on at lunchtime....

 

[Dangerdoll]

Just a hunch, but DD will switch to me now that Kash has her vote there.

why would you think this? I will guess you will say, just an observation...



I find it interesting that most times Pappy shows up, so does dawg..... like Pappy's out of left field comment, this is an observation

 

[dirtydawg10]

Close, but not quite. My original vote was Zaffy (random... for not liking his avatar). Then after both you and Wood voted him too (creating a real early train), you two made me nervous about it and I bailed off Zaffy and retracted mine. I had named you as a suspect for being the first to put out a second vote on someone... but later named Wood as my likely vote later as things develop because of this 3rd vote there and wacky posting. But I hadn't actually voted Woodward yet... not until I caught up again in the thread the following day. (Probably around 2-3 pm Pacific time.)

You did a nice job twisting my question. I know you weren't on Wood the whole time as I had pointed out that you only voted him after he vowed to UD. My full question was about why "Your vote stayed on Wood even when it was a foregone conclusion that he would be dead at nightfall."

No, I didn't wait around for anything.. at that time it was happening, I wasn't here at all.

When I got back to the thread that following day, I had mountain of posts to catch up on. Which I did. I read through all that stuff from Woody after the fact as I was backtracking in the thread. Along the way, I jotted down a few notes.... and when I thought I had it all figured out (starting to think he was probably mafia), I got to his "I'm going to UD" post. Well, that changed just about everything I was planning to post. So I had to go back through it all again... checking to see if there was anything else important that I'd missed before. And wondering what to do about that later development in relation to the impression I was getting leading up to it. That's when I also saw everyone's immediate reaction to his announcement (or bluffing) and that's when I also had to decide whether to vote him or not.

My conclusion going through it all again one more time was... okay, I'm still going to vote him but will switch to someone else after Ice confirms the guy really did quit and he's no longer able to avoid the UD.

So yes.. my post didn't hit the thread until after most of that had already occurred real time. But for me, it took a long time for me to decide which role I believed Woody was in. And yes, much of the way I reacted to that THEN was based on already seeing how many people retracted their votes against Woody all around the same time. I didn't think that response was prudent, wise, or particularly pro-town. So I countered what little I could at the time by voting Woody myself. I wanted to keep him in the running for lynching in case the idiot was trying to fool us with a fake claim that he was "going to" UD.

Long story short...You didn't vote for Wood until after he said he would UD. You weren't convinced he was mafia until after he said he would UD. You say it took you a long time to decide but your post 124 says you just canme back made a quick read and came to this conclusion. It was an easy vote after a player already admitted they would UD and you made it.

This was where I said (to Jpappy) that it took me a long time to decide whether Woody was evil or innocent... which I've just answered already.

Jpappy (and most others) dealt with Woody and his crap as it was happening. I came along to that point in the thread after-the-fact.

See post above. According to post 124 you decided quickly after a "quick" read. (In your own words)

Dawg... like everyone else in this game... you're going to form your own conclusions based on reasons of your own. And a lot of this is determined by which side of the fence you're sitting on. Whether you are pro-town or mafia will make a huge difference how you decide to read me or wish to characterize my role in this game to everyone else.

Under the circumstances, I've come out with my own theory which brings you under suspicion. Naturally, you have no choice but to defend your innocence to me and everyone else so you won't get lynched... whether you're mafia or not. And part of doing involves casting whatever doubts you can find about me along the way.... which I fully expected from each of you when I posted my ideas earlier today.

I understand you can come to your own conclusions but they should be somewhat based in fact at some point.

No Dawg, I disagree completely with the point you're trying to make here. This isn't the typical minority (25% percent) mafia team who all communicate and therefore know going into the game who the evil players are (them) and who all the innocents are (the townies). In those games, it's crucial for them to cover up their connection by going out their way to scatter votes all over the place and create minor (faked) squabbles to distance themselves from each other. In some cases, those mafia teams even choose a sacrificial goat from among their teammates to make some of the scum side look even more innocent by working publicly to lynch the person. Basic strategy stuff for a typical mafia team.

In this game.. it's purely a 50-50 shot which side any person is on. Half the players ARE mafia and can easily coordinate their activities more distantly as long as they can pick up a fairly good read what their other like-minded teammates might be up to. And only 3 people on that team can even talk to each other. They also get no investigations (they can share with the whole team) and they don't need to scatter their votes around so carefully because they're not as closely connected in the first place.

If I was on the mafia side this time around.. I wouldn't worry so much about scattering the scum team's voting around in this game... because there are so many of them (half the playing field) and because they're largely disconnected already.

What my priority would be instead is focusing on who I believed my NON-communicating teammates might be... then doing all I could to support them, protect them, and vote in agreement with them as often as possible.... and try to vote the same way for different reasons. If that meant voting alongside a fellow teammate.. absolutely. There isn't the same risk doing that in this game.

Further... at the time I finally got here today to post all that stuff about my neither Jpappy, you, Zaff, or Annie had come under any suspicion whatsoever as possibly working together. So keeping your activities separate was an NOT issue for you yet. And I don't believe you (collectively) expected someone like me was going to post a theory about you being connected like I did.

I 100% disagree. The best way for a mafia team to get caught is to link themselves to each other. I would say JPap and I would be smart enough not to align ourselves so openly if we were in fact on the same team.

 

[ZSandmann]

Wow, my post got buried in the Kastalanche last night. (that's Trademarked, you steal Kashtalanche, I sue).

Z... For clarification, I'm a dude. Also, thanks for calling me out. I just wouldn't feel right about getting through 2 days without someone voting for me. :nilly:

Look at my post about Woody from day 1. It was the same sort of thing. That's how I play. I wait for something to strike me as odd, then I go after it like a puppy with a frisbee. If you question my loyalty, look at the vote. I found someone I believed to be a baddy, and I voted for him and kept my vote there. I'll continue to play this way, because it's how I feel I can be helpful to the town. I follow what I find interesting and put it out there for everyone to see.


To answer your question directly: we won't know if my post is helpful or smoke until we find out rich's role. But it's how I saw it at the time. If any of this makes me seem scummy to you, continue to waste your vote on me.

But I also have to wonder if I'm on to something with rich, and now you're trying to deflect it to me... any thoughts on why it might feel that way?

I figured you were "a dude" I just wasn't sure so I use them/they/etc always have. I haven't played enough games with you. I'll call you JB from now on, that's dudeish. Hey, at least I didn't call you a dudette.

Woodward was indeed a Mafium, lthough noncommunicative so it really tells us nothing of where loyalties lie. I think anyone that was active at the time should have voted Wood (and most did) and I agree with the retractions once it was clear he was going to UD anyways. It was also abundantly clear after his little monologue that he was a Scumbag.

On Rich: I dunno yet, I haven't formed an opinion on him. Once again though we have lots of noncommunicative baddies this round so finding one doesn't always help link anyone to Innocents or Evils. It would be silly to protect someone like Rich right now as there is no real pressure on him so I hope you'd see that I am questioning your tactic more than your suspect.

Ok. I've had some time to relax and play with the fish a bit and read back through the thread with these thoughts in mind. To be honest, as I read it then, and as I read it now, they all stated reasons that I can understand. At a certain point in that progression, Woody went from being a huge X factor, to telling us what was going on. From that point, logical action depends on your point of view. I can see logical reasons both for switching the vote and for leaving it.

I'm not saying that it's not something to be watched, I'm just saying I don't think we have enough information to cast a vote on it. Likewise, I'm not saying that all of these peeps aren't suspects, but I don't think you have a lot of evidence there.

And again, I'm not sure about rich at all. I do know that he doesn't seem to be trying to add anything to the town's knowledge base, and until something more substantial happens, that's the best I can do. So I voted.

I agree with all of this post, the Woodward meltdown was good for the Town, but not much data can be gleened from the aftermath. Best to focus on who was lynched (Gun) and why. I'm just thankful we didn't lose any Innocents on Night 1, that's a rare feat.

Noods, I find it interesting that ZS has posted less than the moderator at this point, yet you don't mention him at all. You chose your reason for voting me for being quiet??? Strange indeed.

I vote to lynch MC- MC made a post about Woody that he ended with a vote for me. Thats a scummy move, and he has not addressed it although I asked twice why he was voting for me.

My watchlist:

MC -scumbag extrodinare
Rich- a feeling
ZS- a normally active and helpful player, Z literally has less posts than the mod on Day 2. Laying low Z??? Maybe you'll post if you start seeing your name in bold more often.
Noods- Noods is evil every game I think

Though Kashta's theories about me are "tinfoil" as Zaffy would say, I will admit openly I have her leaning innocent at this point.

Well I expect to have a small bullseye on my back from voting for you on Day 1 Annie. At least this gives me a chance to further expound upon things. I placed my vote after figuring out the game was on, it was based on how non-Annie you were being at that point in the game. I didn't give any reasoning as there really wasn't much more than that behind any votes up till then. I had expected to get back in the thread a bit on Sunday but I was occpied all day in non-3G land. (Blame ATT)

A smaller part of my lack of posting in beginning days the last few rounds is honestly because I live longer that way :1zhelp: Honestly we've entered a period in our Mafia games where the talkative die first and then things settle down and reason takes over. That's also why I tend to focus attention on the quiet ones. (Of which I am one sometimes, how's that for a double standard).

I retract my vote for jb.

All I was looking for was the convo we had here.

 

[Zaffy]

I think we're chasing shadows here, If you break the arguments down to the simplest parts, you'll see that it's a difference of philosophy on how the play the game.

I think we're getting sidetracked, and the communicating mafia is allowing that to happen.

I retract my vote on Zsand and vote to lynch Dangerdoll

I have a gut feeling that she's scum, my last gut feeling on her turned out right. She let the woodward thing go with barely a word, she's stoking the coals on the Kash/Pappy thing and is hiding in the shadows about everything else.

 

[rich311k]

I am at a loss here. I think pap and kashta are both OK and just clashing heads over semantics.

Zsand has been quiet as he said he would but that sure does not clear anyone.

I don't trust Annie but don't see anything to catch onto.

Jbrandt seems to be hard at work kicking bushes so I will allow the benefit of doubt for the moment.

I am not sure of MC I will keep an eye on him he is hard to read.

Noodles has been awfully quiet but I hate that reasoning coupled with no other good reason for a vote.

Zaffy's avatar disturbs me, but not much else there. I dont get a good feeling there though.

For the moment I vote to lynch Dawg, his reasoning above seems kind of hollow to me.

 

[Kashta]

Annie is playing careful this time.. and he's been extremely careful this game. That's just weird. I'm still thinking whether to switch my vote to him. He seems to be lying low a lot more so we'll forget about him. That's definitely not Annie's usual style. He's just gone out of sight, out of mind... but the same reasons still apply that drew him all those Day 1 votes.

Ogre, DD, Zsand, Noodles, and MC are too inactive/quiet to read anything. Has Ogre even posted lately? Not that I remember. Zaffy has gone quiet and careful now too. When he was very vocal before.

Jpappy and Dawg drew my strongest "feeling" that they're scum but even if I'm onto something there, it might not be both of them. It's hard to decide which is more likely what between those two. I get the feeling I must have hit on something with Jpappy with my posts based on getting such a strong rise out of him over it. Normally he would have shrugged off some minor suspicion coming up his way like that. But not this time. The way Jpappy and Dawg pushed Rich, DD, MC, and Zsand before makes me want to lean those folks more innocent than neutral, but I think that's because I'm particularly wary of both Jpappy and Dawg now. There's just not enough to go on choosing anyone until we learn more as the days pass.

Before I got caught up in the Woodward retractions... DD, Jpap, and Dawg were getting into it real hard. I didn't get what all that was about and still don't follow the logic behind those arguments on either side.

Rich seems pretty straightforward about what he's posted and hasn't been inactive. He's always fairly noncomittal too. Jbradt kind came out of nowhere to implicate him for not getting into it with Woody.. but a lot of other people didn't either. I don't think that's enough to single out one person and lable him evil... not just by itself like Jbradt did. Then between Zsand and Jbradt, I see the point Zsand made about Jbradt trying real hard to appear helpful but really isn't being much help. Seems he's more picked someone out to go after randomly and decided to stick with it. That makes me think he has a reason that's possibly not favoring the town side.

All in all, I don't have a solid enough place yet for any vote. There's a lot of people to watch more closely and we need to hear more from others too.

 

[Kashta]

This is interesting. I hadn't updated my vote count yet, but we're getting close to nightfall.

Dawg - 1 - DD(181) Rich(266)
Rich - 2 - TRS (194) Jbradt(200)
DD - 2 - Jpappy(195) Dawg(204) Zaffy(265)
Jpappy - 1 - Kash(216)

And there it is again.. the same 1-2-3 pattern I noticed before between the same players. It's like Jpappy and Dawg are joined at the hip... with Zaffy tagging along behind. That's becoming quite a reliable pattern.

Zaffy.. do you have actual opinions of your own? Or maybe you intend to follow Jpap and Dawg around the whole game...

 

[IceH2O]

2 hrs 45 min to night fall

PMs as required



OFFICIAL vote tally

Dawg-2- DD Rich

Rich-2- TRS Jbradt

DD-3- Jpap Dawg Zaffy

Jpap-1- Kash

Annie-1 Noods

MC-1- Annie

no votes from: Ogre,Zsand, MC

 

[Kashta]

Okay.. so mine wasn't complete. Thanks for the update, Ice.