Lionhead goldfish

[reptileguy2727]

They are a cool-water species. They do not need a heater unless the room they are in is abnormally cool. Putting a heater in if the tank stays below 70 is not a bad idea. It is not good to push fancier varieties below 50F, some say 60F. It is too stressful for them. Obviously at least some can tolerate it, but there is no need to push the limits of their life.

All goldfish are the same species. There are different breeds, just like with dogs, but they are all still Carassius auratus. The fancier varieties are not as hardy. So a lionhead is not as hardy as a regular old fantail, which is not as hardy as a plain old goldfish. (Comet refers to a regular goldfish, but one with longer fins, especially the caudal fin.) So not all goldfish are as hardy as one another.

Ranchus are not the Japanese version of a lionhead, it is a different breed. Ranchus have a few differences, the most obvious being an approximate 90 degree angle between the downward curving caudal peduncle and the caudal fin, whereas the lionhead's is almost straight, following the contour of the back.

 

[Dangerdoll]

actually, the heater is more so used for heat stability more than anythiung and these fancy goldies can stand water as warm as 76 though 74 is the top preferred heat.

 

[Flaringshutter]

Thanks everyone for clarifying what I meant. I should've been clearer.

 

[InR reason]

I just 'adopted' a tiny lionhead goldie today!! He was the smallest in the tank, a faded orange color with black tipped fins. Very cute. Any tips for caring for the little guy?? Anything they esspecially like? I know stuff about goldies in general, but nothing special or anything about lionheads in particular..so any advice would be nice!!! =D

I hope you have money because he'll need at least 100g to himself. No.... I'm kidding. Most of the advice given to you is for your benefit and most of it makes sense. I have a baby Lionhead myself, and she's very cute. To keep it simple though, I'm going to levy out this little piece of advice for you to remember:

-fancies need 20g for the first and 10g for each additional fish (though more is always better)
-double filtration
-weekly water changes of about 50%
-high quality pellet food to prevent any kind of swimbladder issues
-lots of love

Good luck Dojo

 

[Psuedofire]

Does anyone here Have a lion head that is 6 or 7 inches long even??? I rarely lose fish I have two Large ponds and one ginormous pond. My fish losses are to roaming house cats and blue heron. I think some of you people that posted need to read my original post better and understand it if you should decide to reply. As I said, I WINTER my gold fish in 20 gallon tanks not 10 gallon tanks, placing 4-6 Large fish depending on size, not quantity of six 7" fish. The temperature stays around 65 degrees + or - 2 degrees. It dosent matter the variety of gold fish they are all cold water species that do not REQUIRE a heater in room tempature. How do you think breeders in colder areas keep their fancy goldfish alive in the fall if they need a temperature above 72 degrees. Many successful breeders house their fish in above ground ponds. Above ground ponds fluctuate temperature fast. As the sun goes down, The tub or pond disperses a lot more heat beacuase of the rather large surface area that is exposed to the elements of the cooling night and can drop down to temperatures as low as 60 degrees. Gold fish can adapt to almost any condition. That is why I can breed them in Minnesota and even winter koi in my ponds. With the use of a heater it boost the fishes metabolic rate, In return the fish requires more nutrients to maintain a healthy weight which causes the fish to create more waste. without the heater you do not need to feed nearly as often because the fish are inactive = less waste. Now, I said you can get away with it if you do your water changes. This is true. My oscars are in a 29 gallon and are all about one inch. when they are of this size I do not find it nessecary or practical to house them in the 125 that a pair will be going into later. The 29 that they are in is adequate for housing these fish until they grow out a little more. Now this works for me. I do not have problems with it and the wintering technique is used by many breeders that you recieve your fish from when you purchase them from the pet store.

 

[Flaringshutter]

Pseudofire, we're only trying to help. Everyone can learn something from a heated discussion, but we're not making personal attacks on you. Many of us might disagree with you, but we're not saying you're a terrible person or even a terrible fishkeeper.

Does anyone here Have a lion head that is 6 or 7 inches long even???

Yes, there are in fact many people on the forums that have large fancy varieties, including lion heads.

As I said, I WINTER my gold fish in 20 gallon tanks not 10 gallon tanks, placing 4-6 Large fish depending on size, not quantity of six 7" fish.

I stand corrected - 20 gallon not 10 gallon. I still disagree, I think that's an awful lot of fish in an awfully small tank, since they are goldfish, after all.

The temperature stays around 65 degrees + or - 2 degrees. It dosent matter the variety of gold fish they are all cold water species that do not REQUIRE a heater in room tempature.

If your temperature stays around 65 all the time, that's fine. Some people keep their goldfish in cool water, some in warm water. As long as the temp is stable, there's no problem.
As far as 'they're all goldfish', you're right, there are many different varieties of the same fish. However, fancy varieties are so far removed from commons that they do have special requirements. This is why fancies should be fed sinking pellets, not floating food, due to their tendency toward swim bladder problems. It's also why fancies and commons are usually not kept together. They may be the same fish, but they're certainly very different varieties with different needs. Commons and comets do well in a wide range of temperatures, but fancies like much more stable, warmer temperatures.

With the use of a heater it boost the fishes metabolic rate, In return the fish requires more nutrients to maintain a healthy weight which causes the fish to create more waste. without the heater you do not need to feed nearly as often because the fish are inactive = less waste.

You're absolutely right about this.

My oscars are in a 29 gallon and are all about one inch. when they are of this size I do not find it nessecary or practical to house them in the 125 that a pair will be going into later. The 29 that they are in is adequate for housing these fish until they grow out a little more. Now this works for me.

I agree with you, as I said in my earlier post.

 

[beefsteak]

Does anyone here Have a lion head that is 6 or 7 inches long even??? I rarely lose fish I have two Large ponds and one ginormous pond. My fish losses are to roaming house cats and blue heron. I think some of you people that posted need to read my original post better and understand it if you should decide to reply. As I said, I WINTER my gold fish in 20 gallon tanks not 10 gallon tanks, placing 4-6 Large fish depending on size, not quantity of six 7" fish. The temperature stays around 65 degrees + or - 2 degrees. It dosent matter the variety of gold fish they are all cold water species that do not REQUIRE a heater in room tempature. How do you think breeders in colder areas keep their fancy goldfish alive in the fall if they need a temperature above 72 degrees. Many successful breeders house their fish in above ground ponds. Above ground ponds fluctuate temperature fast. As the sun goes down, The tub or pond disperses a lot more heat beacuase of the rather large surface area that is exposed to the elements of the cooling night and can drop down to temperatures as low as 60 degrees. Gold fish can adapt to almost any condition. That is why I can breed them in Minnesota and even winter koi in my ponds. With the use of a heater it boost the fishes metabolic rate, In return the fish requires more nutrients to maintain a healthy weight which causes the fish to create more waste. without the heater you do not need to feed nearly as often because the fish are inactive = less waste. Now, I said you can get away with it if you do your water changes. This is true. My oscars are in a 29 gallon and are all about one inch. when they are of this size I do not find it nessecary or practical to house them in the 125 that a pair will be going into later. The 29 that they are in is adequate for housing these fish until they grow out a little more. Now this works for me. I do not have problems with it and the wintering technique is used by many breeders that you recieve your fish from when you purchase them from the pet store.

I did read exactly what you said. And the way you worded it sounded like you were keeping 4-6, 6-7 inch fish inside a 20 gallon tank over the winter. Please go re-read what you originally posted. If that is the case, I'm sorry I still disagree with you. Even for the winter that is too many fish to keep inside a tank that small. And your closing statement about the breeders that breed for petstores holds no weight in this argument. Many of those breeders practice unethical methods of breeding, keeping, and transporting their fish. The petstores themselves are also just as much to blame. In no way am I saying this pertains to you, but it is a sad fact.

 

[didy]

I certainly wasn't arguing with anyone, just stating that I do keep a heater in my fancy goldie tank for temp stability. We're here to share experiences and help people having problems. I kind of feel like you can't argue with success. If other people manage to keep healthy, happy fish in ways that are different from the way I would do it, I wouldn't argue with their methods. Especially since mine are indoors, and I don't have any experience with keeping a pond, beyond watching my uncle maintain his.

The good folks on this board do tend to be very quick to jump in with tank size requirements, but that's really just part of the whole picture. I'm very much aware that I will have to move my two juvenile goldies to larger than my 20 gallon long at some point, but right now, they look lost in there. Much of the reading I've done on stunting has to do with hormones the fish release in the water. That is building up in a 55 or even a 200 gallon, only a little slower than in a 20 or 30. Putting out big $ and space in your home for a larger tank with just a few inches of fish is nice, but it is just a false sense of security about stunting if it gives you an excuse not to give them regular fresh water.

My two will probably get moved to a larger tank some time over the summer. Right now, they are doing great with a cycled, filtered 20 g L tank and almost daily large water changes. I suspect it would be tempting to be less vigilant about water changes if my two small goldies were kept in tank requirements for their potential adult size.

Goldies need plenty of room to swim, strong filtration, and lots of fresh water.

 

[reptileguy2727]

Nitrates are also a big player in stunting. Keep your nitrates under 40ppm tops, preferably under 20ppm. That is a good guide that should require a water change schedule that will also keep hormones and other stunting chemicals to a 'minimum'.

 

[Kyohti]

I swear... some of you people are such bleeding hearts. I used to think I was such a softie until I came here. Are you sure some of you aren't members of PETA???

Look, if he's up to his neck in fancy goldfish that large, he's obviously not some barbaric vicious tyrant fish owner. If fish breeders had to hold up to every little expectation of space, time, and convenience for every little fry that was born on their farm... simply put -- there'd be no fish breeders.

Because goldfish breeders in cold regions can't run out and build a air-conditioned warhouse with an ultra-filtered, super aerated holding tank just so his stock can be ultra comfortable for the next six months.

It's so amusing that people here can be so finicky about how and where you can keep fish, but people keep single dogs when we know they have a pack mentality and prefer to live in groups. We keep muliple cats in a small house though technically cats are solo animals and prefer to be on their own. Horses should roam in herds of 5-15 animals and have several square miles to roam because contact with their own feces will give them worms that can cause them to have colic and die.

But how many breeders or keepers of these animals actually has the money or the space for such accombodations? Not many. But most try to do what they can just for the love of the animal, its personality, and the comfort of its presence in their everyday lives. So why do fish keepers have to be so ultra-perfect? Are you telling me that a person who breeds bettas has to invest thousands to construct a greenhouse and have a 12-acre pond of acidic, 3-foot deep simulated rice marsh to provide ther harvested offspring to others who enjoy bettas and would like to have one? And should THEIR betta be likewise only EVER be housed in a 10-gallon tank of stagnant, murky, 85F-degree simulated marsh water in order to be happy?

Honestly, some of you people need to think beyond what the some of the heavy-handed opinionated people here say and think for yourself about the honest practicality of HALF of what you say to other hobbyists. Because we aren't all made of time, money, and space. Even the best of us has our limits.

And if his biggest crime is keeping his fish wintered over in his house in 20-gallon tanks with good aeration and frequent (time and money-consuming) water-changes SO THEY DON'T FREEZE TO DEATH AND DIE OUTSIDE, I doubt he's half as evil as you paint him to be.