Firemouth with other fish?

[saganco]

Aquazoo states: "Pairs of these fish usually get along well together. However, if the female is not ready for the male when he wants to spawn, he may kill her. She should be removed until her eggs are developed."

Has anyone else had any problems with the male being overly aggressive (to the point of physical damage anyway) with the female? Is he really physically aggressive to other tank mates to the point of damage?

Also, I have a new 65g (36x18x24) and am thinking about a mating pair of:
Firemouth, Green Terror, Blue Acara, and possibly a Nicaragua Chichlid.

Are these guys compatible with each other when bought at about the same size? Would these 6-8 fish plus some tank mates and cleaning crew be ok in my size tank? What would good tank mates be for these guys? Does the term dither always mean that they are partially intended as live dinner for the cichlids? And last, what would my choices for good maintenance crew be if these cichlids are the ones that I end up with (based largely on the feedback of you wiser folks!)?

Thanks in advance everyone,
Sharon

 

[Mr.Firemouth]

I have been breeding Firemouths for 20+ years and line breeding them for the last 7 years. I am currently on my 6th generation of fry. I always have at least 100 firemouths in the fishroom. My goal is to isolate an albino and continue line breeding from there.

Your tank is a 65g which is too small for all the cichlids you have named. The blue acaras are o.k. but the green terror and the nics are a gamble for the firemouths. They are not that aggressive.

The best dither fish in my exp. is swordtails. The fry are food and the swords can hold their own with firemouths. I would keep 6 firemouths in a tank your size with about 20 swordtails. I would also add a common pleco for clean up crew.

Heavy filtration will help with water quality along with scheduled water changes. A varied diet is also necessary for good growth and colors.

Males will not kill the females unless the tank is less than 30g and even then the fish don't always kill each other. Most cichlids will do better in 4' tanks.

 

[is300zx]

I've tried keeping a pair of firemouths before but the dominant male just killed the less dominant one. They are fairly aggressive fish especially to another fish that's similar or smaller in size. A bigger fish like an oscar would be able to handle its aggressiveness though.

It's not a good idea to put that many large cichlids in that size of a tank. You'll need massive filtration system to handle the bioload and there's just not enough tank space to keep all of those fish in there. You have to take each species max size into account. Also since cichlids tend to be territorial there won't be enough territory for everyone to have their own. This will lead most likely to death as the more dominant and more aggressive ones would kill the other tankmates. Mating pairs are even more aggressive.

Dithers doesn't necessarily mean dinner. Some dither fish can be as large as the cichlids like silver dollars. Dithers are intended to help shy fish become more comfortable in their environment. Dithers can also help with spreading out aggression. Your best clean up crew would be a good gravel vac especially with those type of cichlids.

 

[PhaidOut]

Both posters have good points and I tend to agree with MrFiremouth. Plenty of cover is also something to mention. Yes a male will kill other males and females - especially if crowded and not enough cover present. I don't have totally comparable experience because I have never tried to keep more then a pair in a tank at once.

Nics... Especially if you have a pair and they are anywhere near full size will in my experience be more then Firemouths can handle. They get a mean streak to them.

Green terror... They just get too big too fast and there is a reason they are called terrors. I have never kept one with firemouths or anything else in that size range. The single 8" male I had in a similar sized tank was more then a match for a pair of large severum in breeding mode.

 

[saganco]

Well... poo! Thanks guys for helping to straighten me out.

If I went with the Blue Acara's - what would be some REALLY COLORFUL and personable companions in a 36" wide 65 gallon? I have a fluval 405 for the filtration and plan on doing LOTS of rocks with only a few plants in little clay pots elevated off the floor to avoid damage from diggers. How many cichlids overall should I shoot for if I want breeding in there?

Also on a different note - flourite is part my planned substrate - is it ok for the sand diggers? Or does it hurt them? Hubby says it's not too sharp, but I'm questioning it because I don't want my babies all cut up or anything.

So, I'm open to moderately "gentle" cichlids (shooting for the 4-5" grown size overall) along with some fast or otherwise appropriate tank mates for the activity and color. Why else do people use "dither fish" and what does the term mean? So what kind of tankmates would you suggest and about how many?

Thanks again, Sharon

 

[rmcder]

I would hesitate to put more than a breeding pair into a three foot tank. Or maybe a pair and a single tough third fish. As others have advised, nics are too large, and the same criticism would have to be made for the green terrors. Personally, I prefer singles to pairs as it reduces aggression, and I don't have to find homes for 50-100 small fish every few weeks!

If you're willing to look at other possibilities, I currently have a similar tank (but not as wide) with a rainbow (multispinosa), a spinosisimus, a runty Honduran red point, and a runty electric blue dempsey (which, if and when it gets larger, will be transfered to a larger tank). The Hondurans have outgoing personalities and a nice blue coloration (and the males have red trailing fins). The rainbow has gold and black coloration and is a very active swimmer and very outgoing. The blue dempsey is very colorful, but not as outgoing. The spino is violet with spots, but shy. You could have a single firemouth also. I wouldn't go above four small, single fish, and maybe drop that to three when they grow out. I like barbs as dithers, and have a couple clown loaches as well.

 

[pugwash]

I'd agree that either 1 pair or a group of 3 different species of males would work in this tank - you have to consider the tank's floorprint (length x width), as this is what cichlids need most compared to the actual water column.

Dither Fish: a school of fish that will bring the cichlid out from hiding, and then swim confidently around. eg, barbs, large tetra's (Buenos Aires), rainbowfish, Giant Danio's

Target Fish: fish that will be/can provide additional live food. eg, swordtails, mollies - their fry providing food.


I too like Firemouth's, and have a 55g (UK) with a pair of FM's, Raphael Cat, and a school of 12 columbian tetra's in a planted tank!

 

[saganco]

Hmmm, all very good points. You guys are wonderful! Rmcder - I'm going to dig into some of the various fish you mentioned tomorrow when I have some time. I'm not 100% on any one fish yet - just mainly looking for some personality, breeding (I do have an outlet for fish, my LFS is wonderful at trading fish for fish - volume for lesser amounts of other types), size of around 3.5-6" grown (I assume that's about the best size for a 36" wide tank), and COLOR - and of course compatibility with others of a similar type. As many as possible for an interesting tank. There will be lots of caves/tunnels and some plants (mostly in pots).

I would like a couple of breeding pair, preferably different species - then as many colorful tank mates as possible. Too much to ask for one tank? I hope not!

Thanks again,
Sharon

 

[DeRo316]

I would skip the common pleco as a 'cleaning crew'. If you want a pleco I would go with one of the exotics that wont outgrow your tank, and a mag-float if you want the glass clean.

 

[saganco]

DeRo316 - actually I would prefer some gold algae eaters and siamese algae eaters IF, and only IF, they can handle the cichlids (blue acara and that type). I would also like a few small but effective and cool looking catfish (bushy nose maybe).

What does everyone think? Gold and siamese algae eaters be ok with cichlids?