do pandas really stay pandas?

[stripes556]

I've seen lots of these fish being advertised recently, usually panda orandas or panda telescopes, which usually have a white body color with black fins, and possibly some black on the body as well; I've even see some orange-bodied fish with black tips similarly advertised.

I thought this was just a color phase between being a dark juvenile and a white (or orange) adult. Does anyone have one of these new "pandas" that has retained the panda pattern for more than a few months after purchase?

I don't have one, nor am I in the market for one (spot and nameless continue to be hale and hearty and are already overlarge for their tank!), but I'm just curious.

 

[Aderynglas]

Hi Stripes,

I have never seen a panda moor retain colour for any appreciable length of time. I have had Black Moors change from deepest velvet Black to Black/Orange and then go completely orange.
I have had Blue fantails lose colour in patches so that they are patched white and blue (blue pandas) and then turn completely white (yuk) but never have I seen a patched goldfish stay that way - except for calico fish which tend to keep their colour patches although the depth and size of the patches change. White Ryukins with small orange patches often turn almost completely orange eventually.

IMHO the panda goldfish are nothing more than an expensive money spinner.

Hope this sheds some light.

Regards
Dill

 

[stripes556]

Pandas

That's what I would expect, but retailers are selling these as a "new strain" recently developed by asian breeders. I wonder if there is something new under the sun, or if they're perfected raising conditions so they can just get a large batch of young fish to color out in sync--resulting in a large group of "pandas" for sale, before they finish their color change.

 

[avoxo]

Hello stripes556, I agree with the ideal conditions theory. Most goldfish if not all have been breed in ideal conditions. They are in large outdoor ponds in the full sun. They are fed fresh or live foods, plus they have live algae or any other thing that is in the pond to munch on all day. These conditions will produce “ideal” goldfish. Then they are then harvested and thrown into 5-30 gallon tanks with artificial lighting and are lightly fed highly processed food. They are going to change no matter what.

Even goldfish that do not have any black change, their colors are not as vivid or as intense over time. It would be nice that they can come up with a new strain that would not lose their color but we must enjoy them for what they are or become.

 

[blitzen25bm]

spots can come and go. Ive had Kois that were black and orange spotted and in a few months all the orange went away. you can aways add hornward or float some duckweed or something in the awuarium for them to eat those plants are usally pretty cheap.

 

[Melfisha]

Ooops

Well, having not read this thread before I got two super-cute little butterfly tail pandas not so long ago. But I only paid 6.99 each! I kind of knew from another discussion of goldfish color that they probably wouldn't stay black and white, but for now they are pandas and by the time they change they will be established pets and I will love them for who they are - not just for their looks if I remember I will update on if color changes.

I've been looking around on the web and I suspect if you paid a lot of money to someone from China you could get true blues, blacks and pandas that would keep their color. It's about lineage... (I say vaugely, knowing nothing about breeding goldfish) but I feel sure it CAN be done because I've seen gorgeous images of adult fish that are those colors.

So is it true that better light and fresh food will help them keep the black/white colors? I know genetics is the ultimate determination, but if there is anything I can do to help them stay black/white I will do it. Let me know if you have any advice.

Many Thanks

Melissa

 

[fantail]

I bought a panda oranda and his black has nearly all gone now. I think the panda telescope is more stable in colour.

 

[Stargazer]

Panda -quality or quantity

I think the Panda is like alot of other animals , a quality breeding issue.
If you truly love the black and white ( broken/spotted/patched) pattern of the Panda and .If you purchase a young fish from a store or anything else other then the breeder.You cannot see what is in the making ,Is it a Quality Panda (expected to keep most of its color patchs) and nice conformation or for quantity... just for the money making?
I have seen beautiful Panda's , one even won the top prize in a Koi and Goldfish show. So I kinda think its a breeding issue
Stargazer

 

[ramp005]

Good Pandas Stay Pandas !!!

Hi all,

As a goldfish lover and retail saler of fish for over 15 years now, living in Belgium (Europe) I can say the following from experiance.
The panda color in goldfish is fairly new, only fixed existing for 5 years now in the telescope and 3 years for the Oranda (bred in trough the moore).
if you want to bye a quality panda in either Moore, Butterfly or Oranda, follow the guidelines below:

Pandas are not realy coldwater goldfish. They are bred in outdoor ponds year round at temps of around 22 to 26° C. To maintain their best color, they should be kept at these temperatures in the aquarium.

The panda mutation originates from Thailand and moved on to the Chinese breeders for export.

When bying Pandas ask your petshop where the fish originaly originated from. If the answer is Singapore, don't by them.

Never by a panda Oranda smaler than 4-5 inches as these are the culls from the broods. These are much cheaper than the good ones and they will change color (this applies to all colors in Orandas).

Expect to pay between 25 and 30$ for a reasonably good black and white Panda.

When choosing an Oranda, Look at the hood this must be of good form and reasonably be developed. Also the body must be egg shaped and not elongated.

Panda Orandas of good quality that don't have a fully black colored hood, show a vanilla color on the hood, NOT YELLOW.

Orandas that show a small hood, normaly have an elongated body in the 4-5 inch size, DON'T BY THESE, they will change color.

Feed you Orandas Hikari Lionhead or Oranda pellets, to maintain their natural color, Also feed the frozen red, white and black musquito larve. These will help your animals in good growth and health. Ones ore twice a week feed them defrosted peas and/or hikari goldfish flake. Hikari food is realy the best you can give them and the flake food doen't foul the water! NEVER feed TETRA food to your Oranda's, this will surely give them internal problems.

The panda Oranda now is available in black (black and white), blue and brown.

Ofspring from the panda also produced an other variety, the tri-color, wich has next to the black or brown some red or orange markings on the back and/or head. The main body color is (silvery) white. These are not calico. The calico has a blue base color that shows trough the white body color.

The best panda Oranda's and Moores still originate from thailand and are not always the most expensive.

Hope this helped,

Marc

 

[Stargazer]

the Vanishing Panda

One time I bought several red and white comets all from the same parents out of them only 1 stayed red and white the others had their red's vanish and they were pure white.same thing with my stargazer (Star) when she was small she was white with a golden Orange starburst (round spot) on her back as she grew the spot dissapeared too. so I think maybe it's the same gene as the vanishing Panda markings....? could this be ? any thought's on this? I would love to work on the Panda gene making it a sound marking pattern.I now have 2 large Butterfly Panda moors,2 smaller ones I got as a present a few months ago and a white bellied Butterfly black moor thats white has grown as it has onto it's sides also 2 white bellied Butterfly black moors from someones show stock -really cute
Debby