Couple of questions about loaches...

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Sammysaddiction

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Aug 22, 2009
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Sorry for being such a pest today. I have a couple of loach related questions for all you experts!


  1. I have read mixed things about loaches and salt. I have always used aquarium salt. What's the real deal? Can loaches not really tolerate salt?
  2. Can you mix clown loaches with kuhli loaches?
  3. How do you get the loaches to eat snails? Last night I dropped about 20 ramshorn snails in with the loaches & they didn't eat any of them!
  4. Is it normal for them to school with tiger barbs? I'm thinking its because they look similar (orange with stripes and all) but my clown loaches school with the tiger barbs. They go all over the tank with them and swim with the school. I have 6 tiger barbs.
 
There's not a reason in the world to use salt unless you're treating for ich. Loaches can tolerate salt fine for the few wks it takes to treat ich.
Not sure about mixing Kuhli & Clowns.
Chances are the Loaches just need to settle in and start feeling comfortable before they 'eat everything in sight' as Loaches typically do.
Mine don't school with the Tiger Barbs but they all swarm around the tank together. I like keeping those 2 kind of fish together. Both are fast, bold and colored the same.
 
ksane said:
There's not a reason in the world to use salt unless you're treating for ich. Loaches can tolerate salt fine for the few wks it takes to treat ich.
Not sure about mixing Kuhli & Clowns.
Chances are the Loaches just need to settle in and start feeling comfortable before they 'eat everything in sight' as Loaches typically do.
Mine don't school with the Tiger Barbs but they all swarm around the tank together. I like keeping those 2 kind of fish together. Both are fast, bold and colored the same.
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Actually there are many many reasons for using salt other than ich. The ones I know of are electrolytes, improve slime coats, and somehow salt aids in osmosis which helps will gil function. Hey, I didn't say I understood how it worked, I just know that it does LOL. I'm sure there are other reasons besides those.

Thank you for all your answers! The others were very helpful. The loaches & tiger barbs look awesome schooling together but I want to see them snuggle together like everyone says that they do or do something "loach crazy." lol.
 
how many clown loaches do you have? it's cool that they're schooling with your barbs...that would be a sight

My loaches have been in 1 tablespoon of salt per gallon for about 1.5 months and the ich is gone...I'm slowly dropping the salt concentration over the next 1.5 months and hopefully everything will be back to normal sooner than later

Not sure why they're not eating the snails...they should obliterate the snails before they even hit the substrate...especially ramshorns...it's their favourite from what I've heard

Might just be you need a few more clowns to make them feel comfortable...but if they're schooling with the barbs and eating and not hiding then they seem to be comfortable

wait till they start laying down begging for food...trust me they're not dead...they're just being goofy lol
 
Tay690 said:
how many clown loaches do you have? it's cool that they're schooling with your barbs...that would be a sight

My loaches have been in 1 tablespoon of salt per gallon for about 1.5 months and the ich is gone...I'm slowly dropping the salt concentration over the next 1.5 months and hopefully everything will be back to normal sooner than later

Not sure why they're not eating the snails...they should obliterate the snails before they even hit the substrate...especially ramshorns...it's their favourite from what I've heard

Might just be you need a few more clowns to make them feel comfortable...but if they're schooling with the barbs and eating and not hiding then they seem to be comfortable

wait till they start laying down begging for food...trust me they're not dead...they're just being goofy lol
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Great! I will add the salt then. Did you slowly raise it to 1 tablespoon per gallon? OMG ich for months??? I thought it could kill your fish within a few days? UGH this is going to suck!

Could they not be eating the snails because of how small they are? They are about 2 to 3 inches. I have 3, maybe I need more? They are defiantly not hiding, they are all over the tank lol.

I can't wait to see some of that goofy behavior!
 
yah you should slowly raise it...it's not really that crucial when you're raising it from what I understand (and I could be wrong so please don't quote me on that) but dropping the concentration to clean pure fresh water needs to be extremely slow

The problem I had with the ich was the cavelike ornaments in my tank...they would hide in the caves...the cysts would drop and rise back to the interior of the caves (where the clowns were hiding) and constantly being re-infected

then I removed all the caves (every single one) and the loaches got extremely stressed and the ammonia sky rocketed

if you are treating Ich with salt I highly recommend removing all cavelike ornaments where they could hide that have enclosed tops

If you have a piece of slate or some other type of cavelike ornament that allows for the water to flow through then you shouldn't have any problems

but they definately need a place to hide...once they start feeling bad (because of the salt) they will be trying to hide a lot...and they need at least something to hide in or the ammonia will skyrocket and overthrow your nitrates to the point they won't even put a dent in the ammonia...

and always try to do more frequent smaller water changes instead of one big 50% water change

I'm not trying to preach...just sharing all the nonsense I've been through in the past 3 months so hopefully you won't have the same problem

and just to be safe I would add the salt slowly...drip it very very slowly for 12-24 hours if that's possible...the slower the better

the way I'm doing it for decreasing the salt concentration is as follows
during my weekly WC schedule I have a 7 gallon bucket I use

At the moment I was adding 7 teaspoons per to that 7 gallon bucket (which is about 20% of my tank and yes I know it's small I'm repairing my 125g right now...almost done just 4 corners and front pane of silicon and hours of headache and hard work)

Next week during my WC I will add 6 teaspoons...following week 5 teaspoons etc

Might be in your fish's best interest to start with .5 teaspoon per gallon...drip that for 1-2 days if possible...then next week once they've adjusted to the salt...try 1 teaspoon per gallon and again drip it very slowly
 
Normally, loaches do not like salt, they should not be kept with salt except when being medicated.

You can get the full dose of salt into the tank in 3 equal doses over a 24 hour period. Premix the salt in tank water and just pour it in, dripping isnt needed. Dose once, wait 10-12 hours, dose again and wait 10-12 and dose the last 1/3. The proper dose is 1 teaspoon per gal not 1 tablespoon. Also raise the tank temp to 86, this will acellerate the life cycle of the ich so it is killed faster. I would not remove caves etc. this will only stress the fish further which is a poor idea, imo. The sale is in the water and the water is in the caves as well.

Yes salt can help with impaired gill function in a tank with a nitrite spike happening, but not as a general thing to be dosed in fw regularly. Salt will also effect osmotic regulation- that is why you should add it slowly as above. Removing it can be handled by several smaller water changes over a few days. It is not need for healthy fw fish.

Small loaches love to school/play with just about anything. Eventually they outgrow this and prefer to play with other clowns.

Sometime they do not realize snails are food. Normally they learn this from watching other clowns dine on them. One trick that often helps is to crush a few snails in the tank which lets them get at the goody with ease.
 
Sammysaddiction said:
Sorry for being such a pest today. I have a couple of loach related questions for all you experts!


  1. I have read mixed things about loaches and salt. I have always used aquarium salt. What's the real deal? Can loaches not really tolerate salt?
  2. Can you mix clown loaches with kuhli loaches?
  3. How do you get the loaches to eat snails? Last night I dropped about 20 ramshorn snails in with the loaches & they didn't eat any of them!
  4. Is it normal for them to school with tiger barbs? I'm thinking its because they look similar (orange with stripes and all) but my clown loaches school with the tiger barbs. They go all over the tank with them and swim with the school. I have 6 tiger barbs.
Click to expand...
Here are my thoughts.

1. TTA correctly stated it. Loaches do not like salt. You will find that hundreds of species of loaches dwell in soft acidic waters implying they do not need salts which all too often add electrolytes that their osmoregulatory system is not used to.

Regardless of whatever freshwater fish you have, you do not need to add aquarium salt. It is rather pointless to add it every time you change your water. Salt added on a regular basis for no valid reason only allows most pathogens to become resistant to salt particularly ich that they become far more troublesome to deal with than they normally should be. I've kept freshwater fish without adding salt for a long time with no issues. Several other members do the same. The myth that salt benefits the fish regardless of whether they are sick or not, should be debunked. I don't think they add up to anything other than produce salt-resistant strains of parasites as already mentioned earlier. It just sums up to waste of time and money but that's how I have always perceive the use of salt preferring to use it only for ich cases.

On another note, I used table salt when I treated my loaches for ich with no issues. All it takes is dissolving it thoroughly and adding it to the tank slowly to avoid osmotic shock since loaches are quite prone to this issue.

Sammy, regarding post #5, as I understood Tay's post, he was treating for ich, not using salt as a preventive measure but rather as a corrective measure because ich happened in his case. This is how I use salt. It does not work well as a preventive medicine othrwise you risk allowing the protozoans to become quite accustomed to the presence of salt that they become more lethal than the typical.

2. No, you cannot combine anything from the botiine genus with the Pangio sp. Kuhlis in general are quite tranquil and very timid. I prefer to keep them with rather placid tankmates than the likes of the boisterous ones such as the clown loaches.

3. If you were referring to clown loaches, TTA is correct. Theysometimes do not recognize snails as one of their foods. Crushing the snails will usually help them understand why the snails are in their territory.

If you were referring to kuhli loaches, in my experience, kuhli loaches do not eat any snails at all, be they MTS, ramshorns, apple snails, etc. Kuhlis along with dojo loaches never eat snails in my experience at all and I favored them above any other species as tankmates for my snails. Hillstream loaches are another group that rarely attack any invertebrates that do not at least fit their mouths.

4. In my experience, clown loaches and tiger barbs did shoal together.
 
I know this is sort of offtopic but it is important to note that AQ salt is nothing but regular table salt (NaCl) without the anti-caking ingredients.

As for the improving fish health claim...totally irrelevant. Yes, both sodium and chloride are electrolytes (but your tap is extremley low in TDS it contains the essential elements) and it actually irritates the fish's skin to produce a more slime coat. As TTA mentioned it can be used as a quick-fix to help with "brown blood disease" associated with extreme nitrite spikes. Also, adding salt to the water will raise TDS (total dissolved solids) so I so no reason to believe it would "aid" in osmoregulation as it messes with it in the first place.

All in all...salt is not necessary for long term fish health.

I would say a good majority of AC members that keep FW fish do not use salt on a regular basis and all you have to do is look at the photo section to see the amount of success of those people have with their fish.
 
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