Can You Find The Pit Bull?

Call me what you want, but for me, I just can't see the overall attraction for this type of breed (or "breed type", as it's more and more being called in the insurance industry and legislative circles).

Note that I used the word "overall". There has to be balance here before you decide on any dog to become a part of your family. It's a balance of risks versus benefits. Cold as it may sound, you all use the same methodology when you buy a car for driving from A to B, computer for you information management needs, shotgun for upland bird hunting, dishwasher to complete a mundane task, house to live in, stocks as an investment, etc.

I tend to shift much of this occurence towards our country's legal profession (attorneys) for this negative attention to certain breeds. Not all attorneys, mind you. I like mine. Haven't had to employ his services much at all, but the one time I walked into the courtroom with him, you could hear the other guy groan.

A fellow pilot in my squadron used to breed APBT's for many years on his N. Texas farm. He felt he was a responsible, caring breeder, but after many years, litters, sales of some handsome dogs, he stopped. It was that decent number of unprovoked attacks that had the most to do with that decision.

These weren't instances where a stranger crossed the property and was mauled. They endured attacks against cattle on their ranch, from out of the blue, while out on a walk with the dogs. Once they "clicked" and went into attack mode, they were almost unstoppable. You can't continue to breed a particular dog that has been identified as attacking for no reason.

One time, while riding in the back of a pickup truck, one of his pits leaped out at 40mph just so he could attack and kill another dog standing at the roadside in front of another farmer's property. I won't go into the merits of a high-school-age kid riding in the back of a pickup truck with his dog while dad drives down a farm road, but once the dog got it into his mind to attack, he could not be restrained. Even after slamming face-first into that hard dirt road at 40mph and coming to a tumbling stop, the bloodied dog got up, retained his "attack focus" and proceeded to run down and maul that other dog...a Doberman. By the time they backed up and grabbed him, it was too late. Needless to say, he had to put his dog down.

The final straw was when his dad took one of their pits out while doing some work around the farm. He had his back turned for a minute, and when he turned back, the dog had already pulled down a heifer and torn its throat out, killing it. He yelled, "Max, get away from there!" Their pit bull (member of the family, pet, gentle dog in all other respects) trotted up, and leapt for his throat. Well, luckily his dad had a shovel and used it to good defensive effect. The dog got up, shook it off, and trotted in the direction of their house. He had to put that one down too.

I think it's admirable that people try to unrescue unwanted dogs, including these types of dogs. That said, I can't ever rent to anybody who has one, or one that even "looks like one". Risk vs. benefit. My insurance underwriter excludes these, and a few other for documented actuarial reasons. I might get a decent tenant for one of my buildings, but if their dog were to attack or kill somebody, I couldn't financially endure the lawsuit that would come my way. You may disagree, but the courts don't....if I lease to somebody with an APBT (or a dog that "looks like one", sad to say), it becomes a shared responsibility between me as apartment building owner and the tenant as to the dog's behavior. It's not worth the risk to me.

On a side note, I've seen some fine dogs that I'd rather rent to instead of their masters.

As a police officer, my brother has seen too many instances where the family pet APBT (or one that "looks like one") mauled somebody, and the family owning that dog lost everything in the ensuing trial. Everything. In the end, the dog had to be destroyed as well. Not a happy ending at all for anybody! Risk vs. benefit. They had a nice dog (benefit), but the risk of a negative outcome, however remote, did happen. There is a huge legal industry right now based on personal injury lawyers who specialize in dog attacks, and it gains steam every day. APBT's (and dogs that "look like one") are at the top of their hit parade.

There are small dog breeds that bite a lot, I'll give you that. Poodles just about top the list here every time somebody feels compelled to build such a list. The crux of the debate in the insurance industry and lawmaking is that attacks by small dogs usually don't have lethal or potentially lethal results with potential for enormous lawsuit payout.

One negative result here is that other breeds (or "breed types") are dragged into into the legal mix: GSD's, Rotties, etc. I like dogs that are in the 60-70lb. range, so female APBT's, GSD's and Rotties would fit that bill...but I've got way too much to lose to a dog bite lawsuit. My ability to get four kids through college, still sock away funds for retirement, etc., would vanish. The personal benefit of owning one of these fine dogs is largely outweighed by the risk of enormous negative legal and financial consequence.

I think APBT's are handsome, well-proportioned dogs. I don't think there's a dog better looking than a pure white APBT with some liver spots in its coat standing at attention at his master's side with ears perked up. It makes for a great picture. That said, does that benefit of having one in my family outweigh the other risks of considerable negative legal and financial consequence? For me, no. For others, it's a different answer, I'm sure.

For me, having a Dachshund just doesn't have the "fun of ownership" quality that I get from having a bigger dog in the family. However, the "overall" attraction of having the smaller dog is greater due to the possible negative consequences of the bigger dog's actions, however remote.

I think more people get struck by lightning than are killed by APBT's each year, but that's a topic for a philosophy class.

Just my thoughts on that subject.


Regards, N-A

I commend you for stating your opinion in a mature reasonable way. Thank you for not bashing the breed I love, and choose to raise, ..There are dogs that never bight, unfortunately, there are ones who do, and those are the ones, and their owners, who chose to deny the signs, who make it **** near impossible to own these breeds, whiteout a negative astigmatism.
 
I commend you for stating your opinion in a mature reasonable way. Thank you for not bashing the breed I love, and choose to raise, ..There are dogs that never bight, unfortunately, there are ones who do, and those are the ones, and their owners, who chose to deny the signs, who make it **** near impossible to own these breeds, whiteout a negative astigmatism.

:iagree:

N-A, sounds like he had a bad line.. it happens, it's really up to breeding and genetics, it's not ALL up to how they are raised.
He should no have continued to breed such agressive dogs, agression(esp. that severe) is not normal for this breed.
But he must have had some very large pits, seeing as they wouldn't have even come up to the cows' knee.

How on earth did the pit
He had his back turned for a minute, and when he turned back, the dog had already pulled down a heifer and torn its throat out, killing it.
? It would take a pack of wolves longer than that.


Here:http://images.search.yahoo.com/sear...eg&no=38&tt=206&oid=a29d8af019a55a2a&ei=UTF-8

As you can see, pits are pretty small compared to bulls, cows ect.

Believe me, it isn't just pits who would attack a cow ;)
 
As you can see, even with 2 pits on one bull, they lost.

Are you sure he wasn't breeding bears? lol
 
you guys have to remember, that this is one of the tasks, that they were originally bred for. Sometimes, its asking to much, to put a dog in a situation, where its natural instinct, is to hunt what you have in front of it, its like asking a cat, not to bat the mouse thats on its head, it might listen, but not every cat, will listen..
 
you guys have to remember, that this is one of the tasks, that they were originally bred for. Sometimes, its asking to much, to put a dog in a situation, where its natural instinct, is to hunt what you have in front of it, its like asking a cat, not to bat the mouse thats on its head, it might listen, but not every cat, will listen..

Exactly.

Or telling a Rat Terrier not to attack a rodent.. English bulldogs were bred for bull-baiting as well.
 
you guys have to remember, that this is one of the tasks, that they were originally bred for. Sometimes, its asking to much, to put a dog in a situation, where its natural instinct, is to hunt what you have in front of it, its like asking a cat, not to bat the mouse thats on its head, it might listen, but not every cat, will listen..

Agreed, it would be like having a rat terrier and expecting it to leave a pet rat alone. I will admit to being wary of certain breeds. It isn't that I'm sure the single dog is going to inflict harm on me or someone I love, but that there are too many cases where it might.
 
:iagree:

N-A, sounds like he had a bad line.. it happens, it's really up to breeding and genetics, it's not ALL up to how they are raised.
He should no have continued to breed such agressive dogs, agression(esp. that severe) is not normal for this breed.
But he must have had some very large pits, seeing as they wouldn't have even come up to the cows' knee.

How on earth did the pit ? It would take a pack of wolves longer than that.
He stopped and started a number of lines and had some good successes, but he always had the ones that, for lack of a better word, just "snapped" and did the things he mentioned.

A cut carotid artery is as effective as a sleeper hold. It's almost instant on any animal except bears. The pit that did this was a medium size pit, and although they are not fence climbers (like, say, any Belgian Shepherd breed can be), they can leap.

His pit that jumped out of the truck to kill another dog did a great leap from a sitting position with no previous indication it would engage in that behavior. His estimate was that the dog could have leaped onto the roof of the truck cab if he had been turned around 180 degrees.

I agree that if a pack of predators can't inflict an immediate incapacitating injury, bringing down an animal becomes tough proposition. Hey, it takes at least 3 guys to dress a heifer at a rodeo.

you guys have to remember, that this is one of the tasks, that they were originally bred for. Sometimes, its asking to much, to put a dog in a situation, where its natural instinct, is to hunt what you have in front of it, its like asking a cat, not to bat the mouse thats on its head, it might listen, but not every cat, will listen..
THAT is the conundrum here. Although APBT's are not trackers by any sense, there are certain olfactory stimuli that can cause their hardwired predatory/attack instinct to kick in. Some of the big triggers, usually for these and other dogs, are the smell of blood or urine or feces. A farm environment has a lot of that! It sometimes explains, in part, why the family APBT will go ape and attack something as non-threatening as a toddler that has just soiled her diaper. A number of these attacks happened while I was living in Los Angeles...once focused on attacking the child, a defending parent couldn't "turn off" the attack even while laying on top of the child as a shield. Strangely, the dog would not go after the parent, but remained focused on the child. It took a DVM explaining this in a well-reasoned article in the local newspaper.

I know, you'll ask, "Why do people with a crowded house with no back yard in inner-city L.A. have a big dog like that in the house? How do they exercise him?" Etc., etc., etc. I had a nice back yard while stationed in Nor Cal, but it wasn't enough...nor was running 5 miles every day I was home from flying, because that didn't even cause my rescued Greyhound-Lab mix to even start exerting herself. Sometimes you need a lot of acreage to own certain types of dogs.

Unfortunately, attacks like these garner many times more ink in the local newspapers, adding to some hysteria. On the logic side, insurance companies only deal with numbers; how much money do they take in, maintain solvency, and still have enough to pay out for an incident is their focus. It explains why it's impossible to get homeowner's insurance these days if you have a highlighted dog breed. Well, it's not impossible...but the premiums end up being more than a big car payment, or you end up having to sign coverage waivers, which just defeats the purpose of having the policy in the first place.

Still working on getting my "retirement" home...and the dogs to go with it.

Regards, N-A
 
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