Breeding discus - problem!

yhbae said:
Got his water parameters:

pH = 6.0
GH = KH = 1d (well, the color changed after 1 drop so I guess it is between 0 and 1).

He changes water on the breeding tank daily and also feeds live blood worms, frozen beef heart, etc.

To me, he seems to be doing things right...

Oh and today, they spawned again... This time, some of the eggs show some black elements but again, # of eggs have gone down fast from over 100 to now like 40.

Hmmm...
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There are a few things I would like to say,

1: Our optimal TDS settings are 120ppm for maximum fertilization and hatch rate.

When the Osmotic pressure drops below the optimal point the eggs become over fertilized and erupt, when the pressure is to high the eggs get hard and do not allow sperm to penetrate properly.

I am not an expert , this is just what we have discovered in our own hatchery, We currently have 9 Pairs of Discus with eggs and free swimming fry , so we must be doing something right not to mention around 300 Juvies we have left after selling over 2500 last week.

I still think it is the Male that is not doing his job!!!

We have Pairs in Hard water that are getting some free swimmers ( water around 400 ppm TDS)(PH 7.6-7.8) They are not doing near as well as the pairs in softer water , with a PH of 6.5

Just my opinion.
 
Some more updates... I can see some of those eggs wiggle. But I can also see that although both are guarding these eggs, they are making no efforts to stick them to the female body.

Pop, your experience seem odd. I'm no expert in Discus but I thought they really need to be in clean acidic water, especially for breeding environment? I thought hatch rate drops as pH increases?
 
Discus pairs often practice many times, laying eggs and not producing wigglers, this is very common, sometimes I think it is because they are not old enough when they start, but eventually they will probably get it right. Also, they may produce wigglers a few times and eat them or not take care of them before they actually are successful at raising a spawn. The wigglers do not attach to the parents for a couple of days. If the eggs turn white, then they are not fertile. If the eggs are not turning white but just disappear after a couple of days then the pair are probably eating them. The pair often require privacy in order to be successful, too many people staring at them may cause them to eat the eggs or the wigglers. The less they are disturbed the better. They should be in a bare bottom tank by themselves (I use a 29 gallon high) with a sponge filter, located in an area with as little traffic as possible. It also helps to cover all of the sides of the tank except the front. Colored construction paper is good for this, but I would not attempt to do it while they have eggs or fry. When the fry have been free swimming for a few days your friend needs to set up a bbs hatchery.
 
Yes the wigglers are disappearing over time. They are probably eating them. They don't seem to turn white. The tank is bare. They seem to lay eggs, let them wiggle then eat? them. This already happened couple of times during the past couple of weeks.

I have a question for you - you mention they need privacy. This tank is located where there's practically no traffic. But he insists that they need some light even during the night. Is this the case? Or will they do fine in a pitch dark area?

And yes he is ready anytime to hatch brine shrimps... :)
 
I have a question for you - you mention they need privacy. This tank is located where there's practically no traffic. But he insists that they need some light even during the night. Is this the case? Or will they do fine in a pitch dark area?

And yes he is ready anytime to hatch brine shrimps... :)[/quote]


You will need to keep a light on in the room where Discus have young so that they can find their parents. Keep traffic to a minimum.
 
yhbae said:
Some more updates... I can see some of those eggs wiggle. But I can also see that although both are guarding these eggs, they are making no efforts to stick them to the female body.

Pop, your experience seem odd. I'm no expert in Discus but I thought they really need to be in clean acidic water, especially for breeding environment? I thought hatch rate drops as pH increases?
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Yes, for some Discus you will need a lower PH in order to breed , here is what I believe is happening.

Over the years of in line and selective breeding have made these fish become domestic as with Angels. Over a period of years they loose their wild instincts and become like a domestic household pet. This is why most people find that their Angelfish always eat their eggs and young. Discus are becoming just like domestic Angels.

After all these fish all come from similar environments in the wild.
 
May be that is what's happening, I dunno.

He has 3 pairs who are doing the exact same thing - keep lays eggs but they don't see the light at the end of the day.... They are completely different strains too...
 
I keep the light over the tank on 24 hours a day when they have eggs, wigglers or fry until they are through raising them. Like I mentioned before, it is not unusual for the discus to practice laying eggs every 7-10 days for 2 or 3 mos., especially if they are very young fish. I believe they often start laying eggs before they are really old enough to successfully spawn. It requires a lot of patience. If discus were simple to breed and raise then they would not command the price they do. Even after they have successfully raised a spawn, they will still lay eggs and eat them if they are not in the mood to raise them or something does not seem just right to them. If they are still very young and they have only been spawning for a few weeks then I would just be patient and give them time, eventually they will probably get it right. I use tap water and my fish produce fairly good size spawns but it has been recommended to me to use 2/3 RO water and 1/3 tap water for a better hatch rate and this advice comes from the experts in my area and I believe they know what they are talking about. Getting discus to spawn and raise the babies successfully mainly takes patience and that is the easy part, when you have to take over raising the babies after the parents have done their job is the hard part. I said earlier that I use a 29 gallon high tank for my breeders, that was a typo, I use a 20 gallon high.
 
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Woo I just saw whose wigglers now freely swim and many of them are attaching to the parents... They are less than 1cm long, may be about the same size as mbuna frys when they are just spit out.

What are the dangers from here?
 
Here's a picture of the couple with frys... The photo came out somewhat underexposed.... :( Also, using aperture at 1.4, getting the whole fish in focus was a bit challenging...

3254220366_f85f03a52c_o.jpg
 
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