are my fish dying of old age?

Flory

AC Members
Dec 22, 2007
27
0
0
Benicia, California
My fish, which are all at least 2.5-3 yrs old, seem to be gradually dying off, one at a time. The incidents happen weeks or months apart. All fish seem healthy and active, then one will start to look less active. It will swim around when food is given and will suck in bits of food, but then expel them. This failure to eat leads, in some days, to more listlessness and, if I don't euthanize the fish before this, to gasping. I examine them carefully and no other symptoms seem present. I've now lost one brilliant rasbora, a salmon rainbow, and two turquoise rainbows in this manner. I am wondering whether they are simply reaching the end of their lives? I don't know how long they typically live. Three years seems like a long time for small fish. I have lost other fish that just diappeared (probably eaten) since the tank was new, but they hadn't exhibited this behavior.
My local fish expert had no ideas to offer, and the fish looked healthy to her just the other day. Yet this morning a boesmanni rainbow was not eating, a change since just last night. I would appreciate any insights. Thank you.

1. What is the size of your tank?
46 gal
2. What are your water parameters? State the brand of test kit used.
API kit. I regularly check nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, and phosphate. In April I had pH (7.9 SU), GH (20-35 mg/l), and KH (50-75 mg/l) checked. I don't have kits to check these parameters myself.
3. Is your aquarium set up freshwater or brackish water?
Freshwater
4. How long the aquarium has been set up?
Almost 3 years (next month).
5. What fish do you have? How many are in your tank? How big are they? How long have you had them? One bristlenose pleco, 5", about 1.3 yrs; two boesmanni rainbows, 3", 3 yrs; one salmon rainbow, 3", 3 yrs; two corydoras cats, 1.2", 3 yrs; six harlequin rasboras, .75", 3 yrs; two brilliant rasboras, 1.5", 3 yrs; 4 danios, 1", 3 yrs. Inverts: one shrimp, numerous ramshorn snails, about 1.3 yrs.

6. Were the fish placed under quarantine period (minus the first batch from the point wherein the tank is ready to accommodate the inhabitants)? The only fish added after initial setup was the pleco. He and the inverts were added 18 mo ago and were not quarantined. They came from the same LFS where I got all the others.

7. What temperature is the tank water currently? 78.8F / 26C

8. Are there live plants in the aquarium? No. Originally the tank had live plants, but I switched to plastic plants 18 mo ago after a big algae bloom while I was on vacation. That's when I added the pleco and inverts. No algae problems since.

9. What filter are you using? State brand, maintenance routine and power capacity.
Marineland Emperor Biowheel 280, check w/ every water change and rinse or replace as needed (usually replace). Power capacity 280 gal/hr.

10. Any other equipment used (aside from heater and filter which are two very important components of the tank)?
Air pump.

11. Does your aquarium receive natural sunlight at any given part of the day? What is your lighting schedule (assuming you do not rely on sunlight for our viewing pleasure)?
No natural sunlight. Eight hrs of lighting daily: 8-10 a.m. and 2-8 p.m.

12. When did you perform your last water change and how much water was changed? How often do you change your water? Do you vacuum the substrate?
A 50% water change was performed a few days ago. I do this about every 2 to 3 weeks, and clean the filter intake and spray bar. I do vacuum the gravel every time.

13. What foods do you provide your fish? What is the feeding schedule?
Aqueon tropical flakes, small portion (less than 1/8 tsp now) once daily. Frozen bloodworms, once daily. I give the pleco a piece of zucchini every other day, and remove what's left on the inbetween days.
14. What unusual signs have you observed in your fish?
Failure to eat, leading to listlessness and eventual approaching death; please see above.
15. Have you treated your fish ahead of diagnosis? If so, what treatments did you use? State your reasons for planning ahead of proper diagnosis.
No.
 
CORRECTION to are my fish dying of old age?

I misstated the age of my setup and fish. Where I said THREE years, I should have said TWO years. The setup and fish were obtained in November 2007, so the original fish are at least two years old, and must be older since they were all fullgrown when I got them. The pleco and inverts were obtained 18 mo ago as I said.
Sorry for the error!!
 
I misstated the age of my setup and fish. Where I said THREE years, I should have said TWO years. The setup and fish were obtained in November 2007, so the original fish are at least two years old, and must be older since they were all fullgrown when I got them. The pleco and inverts were obtained 18 mo ago as I said.
Sorry for the error!!

I would be surprised if anyone can give you a meaningful or "correct" answer. Not that they have not educated themselves well to fish-keeping, etc. It is just the "experts" with a doctorate hung on their names often guess to how long fish live. Let's face it, in the wild they get eaten, caught, ponds, waterways dry up, etc.

In captivity, supplying them with "natural" conditions and a "good balanced meal", conditions which will ensure "old age", who knows if we have done it all correctly or not--that they don't suffer dietary deficiencies or ??? And, what age is the fish when we get them? With juveniles it is easy to tell, with adults (such as I frequently get guppies, mollies, plattys as ...) it is difficult to know, if not impossible ...

At first reading, your question hit me as a simple one ... on some thought, I realized I am ignorant of a "correct answer."

I like the way you care for your fish though, shows a kind heart ...

Kindly regards,
TA
 
Your fish seem to show the same signs my 12" managua did right before he passed I dont know the for sure reason why he died like what caused the down fall I know his aggression levels were extremely high but when he was near his end he got placid would chase me face anymore could hold his food in. Finally passed away at night saw him in the AM after I showered. Was sad he was bout 10-11yrs old tho.
 
As TechAquaria said, it would be really hard to give you a definitive answer. Sounds like you take great care of the fish and tank and have no ongoing illness issues. It's quite possible their dying is age related. No one can really know for sure how long each fish will live. Life expectancies are guesstimates. The pleco and cories should live several years for you, but again that estimate does not account for a fish that say has an internal organ failure due to heredity/bad genetics, etc.
 
There always has a reason why a fish dies, not because of old age. You have observed many fish outlasting humans even by centuries. When a living being ages, his vital organs begin to fail functioning normally especially immune system. At this point, they become more vulnerable to health issues especially health issues that we cannot detect without necropsy done to determine the cause of death. For instance, mycobacteriosis has been known to slowly kill the fish. It will not appear in outbreaks. Sometimes the myco can cause granulomas to appear internally and the fish simply and seemingly die peacefully with no issues.
 
There always has a reason why a fish dies, not because of old age. You have observed many fish outlasting humans even by centuries. When a living being ages, his vital organs begin to fail functioning normally especially immune system. At this point, they become more vulnerable to health issues especially health issues that we cannot detect without necropsy done to determine the cause of death. For instance, mycobacteriosis has been known to slowly kill the fish. It will not appear in outbreaks. Sometimes the myco can cause granulomas to appear internally and the fish simply and seemingly die peacefully with no issues.
I think you're confusing the concepts of indeterminate size and indeterminate lifespan. True a fish never stops growing, but they most certainly possess a specific lifespan determined by their genetics. Whether they achieve the full potential of this is determined by environmental factors. Guppies have been around the hobby for longer than any of us, but has anyone confirmed one living even 10 years? I doubt it. To my knowledge indeterminate lifespan occurs no higher on the evolutionary ladder than Cnidarians, ie Sea Anemones
 
I think you're confusing the concepts of indeterminate size and indeterminate lifespan. True a fish never stops growing, but they most certainly possess a specific lifespan determined by their genetics. Whether they achieve the full potential of this is determined by environmental factors. Guppies have been around the hobby for longer than any of us, but has anyone confirmed one living even 10 years? I doubt it. To my knowledge indeterminate lifespan occurs no higher on the evolutionary ladder than Cnidarians, ie Sea Anemones
This is exactly my point.;) Subrosa, I did not argue here for the indeterminate size (which confuses me why it suddenly came to that) because I am not saying that a fish can live for as long as it wants. My point is there is always a reason why a fish dies, not because it aged itself but because the conditions where it is in, body functioning and its health conditions in itself did not permit that. A healthy fish just don't flop dead immediately.

Have you read the OP's description of symptoms? This is why I said they just don't die of old age. There is always a reason more than the easily conclusive old age.
 
You stated"There's always a reason why a fish dies, not because of old age"
That and your last post add up to the fact that you are saying that fish never die of old age. I'm not sure now whether your error lies in your language or your logic. Please answer this question: Do fish ever die of old age? I mean in general, I'm not interested in this particular person's fish at the moment. Your previous statements are crystal clear in answering "No", and that answer is dead wrong.
 
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