Whats wrong with this Gourami??

IceH2O

Bazinga
Nov 26, 2005
1,682
60
51
Rock Hill,South Carolina
Real Name
Ice
I noticed today that one of my Gouramis has some type of injury ( I hope ) or disease.

One side looks like it has an ulcer and on the exact oppisite side it looks like it has a pimple.

This Gourami is as active as ever. Chases all the other Gouramis away from his territory. Eating well no signs of distress.

All other fish look fine.
pH 6.8
Am 0
NI 0
NA 15
Temp 80

Here are some pics:

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What do you think it is and what would be the best course of action. If need be I could QT him in the snail tank though its a bit cooler at 77/78. Or is it something I need to treat the entire tank for? Its the 75 gallon tank whose inhabitants you can see here http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/member.php?u=33506

TIA
 
there are a number of diseases that begin this way. (1) tumors or lymphocystis which are viral in origin and not treatable, (2) fish pox which is also viral and not treatable (3) various forms of ulcer disease which are caused by Pseudomonas or Aeromonas and are treatable, (4) HITH or LLE which has varied causes and treatments, (5) Costia - a parasite that nearly always causes little red hemorrhages, especially under the chin, (6) various bacterial diseases caused by such as Columnaris, (7) Neoplasm formations. there are a number of diseases that begin this way. (1) tumors or lymphocystis which are viral in origin and not treatable, (2) fish pox which is also viral and not treatable (3) various forms of ulcer disease which are caused by Pseudomonas or Aeromonas and are treatable, (4) HITH or LLE which has varied causes and treatments, (5) Costia - a parasite that nearly always causes little red hemorrhages, especially under the chin, (6) various bacterial diseases caused by such as Columnaris, (7) Neoplasm formations, (8) 'pimple disease'.

Lumps and bumps that suddenly appear are usually infections. If the disease process is due to bacteria, it usually resolves by rupture (like a boil) pretty quickly. The white liquid that oozes out is pus that is formed when the white blood cells (immune cells) die while killing bacteria (in general). NEVER TRY TO POP OR SQUEEZE THE LUMP. Like a boil in humans, squeezing can cause regurgitation of the pus into the blood stream of the fish with deadly results. It is also not a good idea to seal a draining wound unless it is bleeding. The most common bacteria which causes such lumps is Columnaris or Aeromonas.

Wounds that are white on the edges and red in the center are most typically Aeromonas. Those that are red on the edges and white in the center are generally Columnaris. Both are gram negative bacteria. the best treatment for this is any sulfa antibiotic with trimetheprim. this can be put in the water and mixed with food -- if you can find Romet B use it.

Cautionary notes: Some water conditioners can inactivate some medication. NovAqua and PolyAqua will inactivating metals and quickly inactivates potassium permanganate.

Oscars, Severum and Angels seem to be very susceptible to Hole-in-the-head disease. some research links this disease to Hexamita, a parasite. the disease progression leads to bacterial infection. it starts as pitting and depigmentation in the head area, usually along the lateral line. Later pinpoint lesions are seen with thin white threads protruding from them.

in Oscars particularly, there seems to be a link to mineral imbalance and/or declining immune system in stressed and/or older fish. other alternative theories link this disease to mineral imbalance which makes lateral line pits enlarge letting bacteria get in.

lastly, some research indicates that certain carbon filter materials may predispose fish to this disease though the mechanism has not been determined. better nutrition (provide calcium/phosphorus/vitamin D supplement), less crowding, more water changes may help. Change brands (marineland is good) or don't use filter carbon at all. Hexamita is usually treated with METRONIDAZOL and this should be accompanied by antibiotic food.

Costia treatment is best accomplished by (a) first using a salt dip to strip the slime coat, (b) treat for 3 days with Quick Cure (c) run the temp up to 86°F for 3 days and then (d) slowly lower the temp to normal at a rate of about 4 degrees over a 24 hour period.

other 'bumps' and 'lumps' may be treated by a bath of potassium permanganate. you can often obtain this at your local pharmacy.

notes on the use of potassium permanganate. 1 drop of stock PP per gallon is equal to 2 ppm. This is the concentration used for continuous treatment. PP is usually used for 3 days, or every other day for 4 treatments. If water is not clear in 24 hours (looks yellow), change 25-30% of the water before adding another dose. Light inactivates PP. After adding the PP, watch for a minimum of 15 minutes to make sure there are no adverse reaction. Then turn off lights or cover the tank.

Some water seems to inactivate PP rapidly. It should be pink when you put it in, and stay pink for at least 4 hours to be effective.

Stock PP can be used on a swab on small wounds or patches of white "crud" on fins. It results in a chemical burn and turns the area dark. Do not use near the eyes, mouth or gills. Use as a one time application, followed by Neosporin creme or Panalog (by vet prescription).

Epizootic ulcerative syndrome caused by Apahnomyces invadans. this disease works from the inside muscle outward to the dermis/epidermis causing lesions. there has been some reported prophylactic and therapeutic success addressing this parasitic fungus using RALLY in combination with standard doses of the antibiotic Kanamycin available at shops in various formulations.

If you pursue combined RALLY/Kanamycin treatment, use it according to package label instructions, and add one dose of RALLY every 3 - 5 days. The active ingredients in RALLY are biodegradable; however, you should run carbon or a Polyfilter for a few hours (and then remove it) before adding a repeat dose.

If small fish such as gouramis don't show lesions after a period of weeks, they are probably not/no longer infected and, therefore, no longer producing infectious spores. No sores + no spores + weeks = cure(?). There isn't much known yet about latent spores ("hyphae") which may survive in the flesh. The fungus does most of its damage in the muscle tissue where the effects are not readily apparent; when the infection breaks through the epidermis and forms an open sore the water is being seeded with infectious spores. Therefore, if your fish show no visible symptoms, let's say for at least four weeks, you probably have been successful it saving them and terminating the infection cycle. However, remember that the infection is invisible during most of its cycle in any given fish: therefore what appeared to be "stopping the infection in its tracks" over a period of 10 days or so doesn't mean the infection was eradicated. Finally, a fish can have multiple tracts of infected muscle, leading ultimately to multiple sores. So, while getting one sore on a fish closed up and healed is a significant achievement, it again doesn't mean much until the fish stays clean for at least two or three weeks.

"pimple disease" is a possibility. most typical observation is white “pimples” and areas of reddening on skin. the cysts observed on the skin, gills and internal organs are consistant with the fungus-like organism, Ichthyophonus.

Ichthyphonus/Ichthyosporidium. 50%-60% of all fish deaths can be attributed to this nasty critter. this parasite can dwell anywhere, in the eyes, kidneys, liver, reproductive organs, muscles, gills, fins, muscles and even in the brain. most common symptoms of this parasite is ragged or loss of fins, tumors, lumps or lesions of the skin, pop-eyes and even eyes that fall out of the head, constant gasping at the surface, dark or black body color.

just about all fish deaths that show no external symptoms can be traced to Ichthyophonus upon autopsy. this critter is especially nasty since it will spread quickly within the tank from open lesions in the skin, infected feces, even passed through diseased gills into your tank water. soon to be picked up by other members within the community tank, primarily at feeding times. a successful cure for these parasites has not yet been made possible. best recommendation is to remove suspected fish from the tank and destroy them.

buy rally here ---> http://www.northcoastmarines.com/rally.html

Hydrogen peroxide is preferred for topical application near the mouth or gills.
 
Its definetly white outside and red inside. It looks like a ruptured pimple or boil.

Its not in his head area its between his back tail and bottom fin. Can HITH form in other areas?

I read up on Columnaris and it doesn't look like that, at least it doesn't have any of the other symptoms.

From reading around it sounds bacterial, will something like mela or Primafix work?

I don't see any evidence of any type of worm.
 
Since AC dumped us again I decided to try something on my own. I bought some GelTek antiparasite and GelTek antibacterial food. Its a gel type and I soak the flakes in it and feed them 2xs a day.

I started over the weekend but wasn't sure if they were getting a full dose when they ate. So I bought the Jungle antiparasite, they were out of bacterial, and the fish refuse to eat it. They spit it out everytime. So I switched back to GelTek, atleast I know they're eating it.

The pimple on the left side has also erupted so now he has 2 holes on exact opposite sides but not all the way through.

Water parameters are still perfect.

Anything else I can do? Would rasing temps help any? It sits at 80 now.
 
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