I have had my tank for less than a month. I have had to learn most things the hard way, but I have labored to keep my chemicals down so that my fish would not have to suffer. I probably would have done a fish-less cycle had I known of such a thing, but I listened to petsmart. I also learned not to by kits with tank, filters, heaters, ect, as most of the stuff in them is undersized and cheap. Having said all that: I have been studying here what people are saying about undergravel filters. Everyone seems to hate them, but I am not sure why. It seems to me that I have given up a huge filter (the gravel) and exchanged it for a little tiny piece of material that is in my power filter. Isn't the gravel and space beneath kept safe if vacuumed properly? Wouldn't using the undergravel save a lot of mini-cycles when having other problems or adding fish? Wouldn't it do a more efficient job of keeping ammonia and nitrites down under any circumstance? If you are not using an undergravel filter, but have the gravel in the tank, do you need to do anything different than you would if the gravel were part of the filter? Any thoughts or experience would be appreciated.
Undergravel Filter
- Thread starter livingword26
- Start date
Okay, I'll try to be unbiased here, but I am solid believer in undergravel filters, and have been for 30 plus years. So you will probably get some response that I am an old timer, set in my ways and won't change, which would be totally untrue if you knew me.
UGF are probably the oldest continually used form of filtration, along with sponge filters. And you are right to make the statement that they provide a huge area for bacteria growth and minimize chances of mini-cycles.
Some downfalls that you will hear about, to exhaustion, will be:
Maintenance...this is derived from the standard air or powerhead driven UGF pulling waste down into the gravel bed causing you to gravel vac more frequently. IME, this is only true if you are overstocked, overfeed and/or are not consistent with a maintenance routine.
Eventual tank breakdown...you will hear that eventually you will be forced to completely dismantle your set up to clean out the massive build up of mulm/waste under the plates, usually accompanied by the dire warnings of massive amounts of toxic gases soon to poor out of that waste. There are methods to prevent that from happening...don't over feed, don't over stock, do regular maintenance, and or use reverse flow UGF. I have kept tanks set up as long as 10 years on UGF, had to break them down for moving, and found nothing but a faint film of debri underneath. But, I will admit, it takes intense maintenance to do this.
No sand...not true. It takes some adjustments, preferably with RUGF and coarse sands but it can be done. I have three tanks set up in this format. Though I would not recommend it for anyone except an experienced aquarist.
No live plants... again not true, provided you put the plants in containers; I never have had any issues.
I do feel that the best method is RUGF, with additional power driven filters to remove the debri from the water column, such as HOB or canisters.
UGF are probably the oldest continually used form of filtration, along with sponge filters. And you are right to make the statement that they provide a huge area for bacteria growth and minimize chances of mini-cycles.
Some downfalls that you will hear about, to exhaustion, will be:
Maintenance...this is derived from the standard air or powerhead driven UGF pulling waste down into the gravel bed causing you to gravel vac more frequently. IME, this is only true if you are overstocked, overfeed and/or are not consistent with a maintenance routine.
Eventual tank breakdown...you will hear that eventually you will be forced to completely dismantle your set up to clean out the massive build up of mulm/waste under the plates, usually accompanied by the dire warnings of massive amounts of toxic gases soon to poor out of that waste. There are methods to prevent that from happening...don't over feed, don't over stock, do regular maintenance, and or use reverse flow UGF. I have kept tanks set up as long as 10 years on UGF, had to break them down for moving, and found nothing but a faint film of debri underneath. But, I will admit, it takes intense maintenance to do this.
No sand...not true. It takes some adjustments, preferably with RUGF and coarse sands but it can be done. I have three tanks set up in this format. Though I would not recommend it for anyone except an experienced aquarist.
No live plants... again not true, provided you put the plants in containers; I never have had any issues.
I do feel that the best method is RUGF, with additional power driven filters to remove the debri from the water column, such as HOB or canisters.
I used UGF a long time as well and agree they are an effective filter. But they have issues as mentioned. You can't really replace the biomedia in the tank gravel with a tiny piece of material, but you can have the same effective amount of biomedia elsewhere, remembering that things like ceramic rings or cell-pore have a lot of surface area. If you have enough biomedia anywhere then the minicycles are much the same with any filter.
I moved on to other filtration systems as they are easy to clean and maintain. With a canister or HOB or wet/dry you are getting the waste material out of the tank in a nice easy way. You can completely break the filter down and clean it all up without breaking down the tank. You still have to clean the gravel, but you get a lot more buildup in gravel with a UGF.
Then there is the plant issue...
I've used about all the filter types. They all have there pros and cons... You just need work out what pros you like and cons you are willing to put up with.
I moved on to other filtration systems as they are easy to clean and maintain. With a canister or HOB or wet/dry you are getting the waste material out of the tank in a nice easy way. You can completely break the filter down and clean it all up without breaking down the tank. You still have to clean the gravel, but you get a lot more buildup in gravel with a UGF.
Then there is the plant issue...
I've used about all the filter types. They all have there pros and cons... You just need work out what pros you like and cons you are willing to put up with.
I've been toying with some ideas to make a RUGF. Can any one tell me how many gph water flow should go through it.
part of this is determined by a couple factors..size of tank(this also should determine the size of the ugf) depth of gravel..etc.livingword26 said:
you can either devise your own prefilter or you can purchase the marine land prefilter kit.
determine the size of the ugf and place the reverse flow powerheads where applicable.
Livingword26,
UGF are great, just have fun and give it a try. I general rule of thumb for flow rates is three to four time the volume per hour, for example if you had a thirty gallon tank the power head/s should cycle approx 90 to 120 gph. For a fish only tank I prefer wet/dry trickle filters.
UGF are great, just have fun and give it a try. I general rule of thumb for flow rates is three to four time the volume per hour, for example if you had a thirty gallon tank the power head/s should cycle approx 90 to 120 gph. For a fish only tank I prefer wet/dry trickle filters.
Err what is actually suppose to happen if you planted a tank with a under gravel filter? My tank is planted and has a undergravel filter going via a powerhead and I also have my eheim cannister filter running. Plants seem to be growing fine.
I have been using UGF's for 15+ years. I just recently set-up my first tank without an UGL so I will be watching closely to note the difference.
I have never had a problem with excessive build-up under the filter plates. You can see the bottom of all my tanks if you look under the stand. If you watch when you do a gravel vacuum you will see how effective the gravel vac really is.
I would add a UGF to any tank set-up. It is an excellent bio filter. It can never hurt when used with other filter systems. Instead of having a HOB or canister filter your tank alone, why not have an UGF too?
I have never had a problem with excessive build-up under the filter plates. You can see the bottom of all my tanks if you look under the stand. If you watch when you do a gravel vacuum you will see how effective the gravel vac really is.
I would add a UGF to any tank set-up. It is an excellent bio filter. It can never hurt when used with other filter systems. Instead of having a HOB or canister filter your tank alone, why not have an UGF too?