is marine, and reef the same thing?

grannylvsfish

have you been bad this year ??
Dec 6, 2006
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Montana
also
Does one have to have live rock in a salt tank? can i have regular gravel, and back filters like a regular tank? skimmer and a bubble bar? do I have to have sand in a salt tank? ( silly questions probably but I would like to know :)
 
Saltwater generally means fish/snails/shrimp/crabs etc.. Reef means they have corals also.

You really should have live rock, and a skimmer. Sand is optional, gravel not normally used. Filter (if any) depends on size of tank. No bubble bars.
 
Not trying to hijack the thread,,but can I ask,why no bubble bar??
 
bubble bars cause microbubbles to occur in your saltwater tank.. that means your fishes will get bubble eye or cloudy eye disease...

the substrate in a saltwater tank should be able to buffer the water (I.E. crushed corals or aragonite). live rock is just a way to cycle your tank faster with the bacteria that is already established


marine is a saltwater tank with fish only... a reef tank is a tank with tropical fishes and corals
 
dont use crushed coral, live sand or aragonite are the only ones recommended. You dont HAVE to have sand but some species benefit from it and it looks nice.

No need for hang on filters or anything of the sort, powerheads of 30x flow over rate, live rock and skimmer is all you need for filtration, this is called the berlin method.
 
also
Does one have to have live rock in a salt tank? can i have regular gravel, and back filters like a regular tank? skimmer and a bubble bar? do I have to have sand in a salt tank? ( silly questions probably but I would like to know :)
yea i would use rock and highly recommend a skimmer as well as using aragonite sand not play sand or anything else....gravel can be worked with but i wouldn't do it really plus its not really natural. and as said marien can be anything saltwater but reef is specifically corals and is usually a small ecosystem.

bubble bars cause microbubbles to occur in your saltwater tank.. that means your fishes will get bubble eye or cloudy eye disease...
can i have a link about that condition WeeNe?
 
in large tanks you need a skimmer, in smaller tanks its not needed but HIGHLY recommended, and not all skimmers are the same, its not whether or not there venturi or air powered, it all matters within the company.
 
bubble bars cause microbubbles to occur in your saltwater tank.. that means your fishes will get bubble eye or cloudy eye disease...

I remember when you last mentioned this, a couple of us asked where you got this information from?

Anyway, after a little searching I found this from Eric H. Borneman, author of Aquarium Corals...

"Many aquarists go to some considerable lengths to baffle sumps and pump flows to prevent small bubbles from being returned into the display tank. It has been suggested that such bubbles represent an irritation to fish, corals and other invertebrates and that they should be avoided. To be honest, I am unsure from where the origin of this perception came. However, it is untrue. Even the name is inaccurate… the prefix "micro" would refer to bubbles too small to see.

Small bubbles are very common in tumultuous reef environments, and areas where waves break are often dense with both reef life and small bubbles. In addition, in tanks and on reefs, many bubbles of various sizes, including true "microbubbles" are produced by photosynthesis, and this is especially the case in highly illuminated environments. In my own aquaria, a constant rise of bubbles, especially in the afternoon, are produced by various corals and algae in even some of my less-illuminated systems. Larger bubbles frequently get sucked into pump intakes, and are chopped up to even smaller sizes and distributed throughout the tank. I won't even begin to discuss the massive numbers of bubbles produced by various surge devices. These water motion devices have great benefits in aquaria, and even as anecdotal aquarium observations, I have never seen anything disturbed, irritated, or harmed by the rush of bubbles."

Apparently people think these microbubbles cause Exophthalmia (pop eye) and Emphysematosis (gas bubble disease).

I found this on Exophthalmia (involving seahorses):

"...or by gas super-saturation of the water in which the seahorses reside. Gas super-saturation causes problems similar to the bends, which affects SCUBA divers. The situation, in which gas levels in the water are much higher than normally possible (caused by limited areas for gas escape), causes gas bubbles to form where possible. Because the pressure inside of a seahorse is lower than the pressure of gas super-saturated water, the gas bubbles emerge directly under the skin of the affected seahorse."

And I found this on Emphysematosis- "What is happening here is emphysematosis, gas bubble disease. This is an adverse condition brought on by too sudden a change in the pressure of dissolved gases inside the fish and the water they're in."

I found nothing (besides other message board forum members saying it) on aquarium microbubbles affecting fish and causing eye problems. I did find that a lot of people do believe this though, although it is not known where this mystery origin came from.

If you have any information otherwise I would love to read it. I find this truly interesting.
 
I remember when you last mentioned this, a couple of us asked where you got this information from?

Anyway, after a little searching I found this from Eric H. Borneman, author of Aquarium Corals...

"Many aquarists go to some considerable lengths to baffle sumps and pump flows to prevent small bubbles from being returned into the display tank. It has been suggested that such bubbles represent an irritation to fish, corals and other invertebrates and that they should be avoided. To be honest, I am unsure from where the origin of this perception came. However, it is untrue. Even the name is inaccurate… the prefix "micro" would refer to bubbles too small to see.

Small bubbles are very common in tumultuous reef environments, and areas where waves break are often dense with both reef life and small bubbles. In addition, in tanks and on reefs, many bubbles of various sizes, including true "microbubbles" are produced by photosynthesis, and this is especially the case in highly illuminated environments. In my own aquaria, a constant rise of bubbles, especially in the afternoon, are produced by various corals and algae in even some of my less-illuminated systems. Larger bubbles frequently get sucked into pump intakes, and are chopped up to even smaller sizes and distributed throughout the tank. I won't even begin to discuss the massive numbers of bubbles produced by various surge devices. These water motion devices have great benefits in aquaria, and even as anecdotal aquarium observations, I have never seen anything disturbed, irritated, or harmed by the rush of bubbles."

Apparently people think these microbubbles cause Exophthalmia (pop eye) and Emphysematosis (gas bubble disease).

I found this on Exophthalmia (involving seahorses):

"...or by gas super-saturation of the water in which the seahorses reside. Gas super-saturation causes problems similar to the bends, which affects SCUBA divers. The situation, in which gas levels in the water are much higher than normally possible (caused by limited areas for gas escape), causes gas bubbles to form where possible. Because the pressure inside of a seahorse is lower than the pressure of gas super-saturated water, the gas bubbles emerge directly under the skin of the affected seahorse."

And I found this on Emphysematosis- "What is happening here is emphysematosis, gas bubble disease. This is an adverse condition brought on by too sudden a change in the pressure of dissolved gases inside the fish and the water they're in."

I found nothing (besides other message board forum members saying it) on aquarium microbubbles affecting fish and causing eye problems. I did find that a lot of people do believe this though, although it is not known where this mystery origin came from.

If you have any information otherwise I would love to read it. I find this truly interesting.
see though i never heard of it...humm well anything im really interested as well WeeNe
 
I have also requseted this infomation before from you weenee and you have never produced documented evidence or backed up that this is correct. Can you either post where you get this info from or not mention it again as it is going to be very confusing for new people to see someone speak of a disease or ailment and not be able to find out "anything" about it.

Niko
 
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