how much flow recomended for fowlr tank

gorfre

AC Members
Jun 24, 2009
24
0
0
miramichi nb canada
first post here. good people of aquaria central.can any of you tell me how much in tank flow is needed for a fish and live rock tank.
my tank is 75 gal with aprox 80 lb of rock.
my tank has been running for 1 year and still having algae problems that others are telling me is from flow issues.
i have a sump with a quiet one 4000 return pump 600 gph as well as 2 propellar power heads 800 gph each one on each end facing each other.
thanks
 
I have a 75g and a quietone 4000 as well. Just yesterday I upgraded it to a 1200gph (via-aqua) pump because one of my Koralia's blew (It actually made a smoke bubble! wtf) and my quietone was having issues. So now i've got a 1200gph pump and a koralia (3 i believe) and it seems like i have more flow than I did with the two Koralia's and the quietone.

I like it better as well because I have one less Koralia to hide. Mine is a reef tank though.
 
Algae problems simplified version:
Lots of Phosphate Nitrate and plenty of sunshine is all it needs.

Flow keeps detritus suspended in the water vs settling in the substrate and breaking down. If its in the column it can be eaten or skimmed is the thing. Not main problem of algae...(flow that is) but it is still important.

You want to test for Phosphates especially from water source and in tank...

The way I put a big halt on algae problems is running a Phosban reactor with Phosban media... and using only RO/DI water.

You keep your phosphates at 0 and change water weekly at 10% while keeping your feeding in check... the algae will not take over.

Do keep a good clean up crew in the tank. Snails, hermits, for instance.

as for nitrates: we import by feeding and sometimes unkowingly by water sources. So check your top off water source... Exporting nitrates by water change /use of refugium ...controlled feeding... should keep this at bay.

Keep in mind I dont know your complete set up.... I may have missed some things to advise you on. Some folks Use canister filters ...I like to call Nitrate Factories...and by god they are.
 
Last edited:
Algae problems simplified version:
Lots of Phosphate Nitrate and plenty of sunshine is all it needs.

Just to clarify.. it isn't "light" or "sunshine" in general, it is actually the 550-600nm wavelength that promotes algae growth. Unfortunately most daylight bulbs put out a lot of that spectrum. If you simply run actinics only algae will not have the lighting it needs to grow. Minor details.. just wanted to point that out though.
 
I currently have a double light strip (compact fluorescent) with one daylight and one actinic.

Turbo snails, emerald crabs and coral banded shrimp has really cleared off my algae (but then again, keep in mind, my tank is only 3 months old).

Is there a pro/con to having both CF running for a FOWLR tank? Or should I switch to both to actinic? I do wish to keep zoas down the road.........eventually..........maybe...........if I ever gather the guts to go down that path.
 
Here is the good and bad with lighting.

Actinics - Good because they only put out the light spectrum corals need for photosynthesis. Bad because since the bulb is only putting out one small range of wavelength the PAR numbers coming off of them are much lower than daylight. Also bad because other wavelengths do play minor, yet important roles in the coloration of corals and actinics by themselves won't give you the best coloring to your eyes or in reality in the corals.

Daylight - Good to make your tank look more like day time lighting. Also good because most daylight bulbs put out just as much PAR in the 440nm range as an actinic so they are about even as far as lighting for corals are concerned. Another possitive is the other spectrums do bring out certain pigmentation of your corals to make them look better. The Bad with daylight is the same though... since they do put out a broad spectrum, the other 2 "peaks" in wavelength intensity is in the bad areas that promote algae growth. They have to put those in daylights though to balance out the blue spectrum and make it look more pleasing to the eye.

This is why I am now learning just recently that PAR readings by themselves are almost meaningless, just like wattage. PAR is from 400-700nm in wavelength, which is most of our visual range as well. 400 being deep blue until it drops off into the UV spectrum, 550 area is Green, 700 is Red, beyond 700 is Infrared. With a reef tank, your primary concern is coral health and making sure they get the lighting requirements they need. For corals, this is mostly 440nm area.. actinic. With a PAR meter/reading it will give you the total PAR output of the light, so it takes into account 400-700nm and gives you a number. Problem with that is, we are really only concerned about just the 440nm area, the others play just minor roles in corals. So what I am saying is, an actinic bulb will only give you a 300 and below PAR reading where as a daylight bulb will give you a 1000 PAR reading because it has more wavelengths of light to figure into the equation. Unfortunately, with just a PAR meter, you do not know how much of that 1000 PAR on the daylight bulb is actually just 440nm and how much is "bad" light for the tank. This is where a spectrometer comes in handy, you can break down the wavelengths of the daylight bulbs to see how much of each wavelength they put out. On my Phoenix 14k MH bulb, under a spectrometer, it appears about 75-80% of the output of the bulb is in the 440nm area, which IMO is VERY good for a "daylight" bulb. On the other hand, the bulb I thought was the best of the best at the time, the XM 10K, put out about double the PAR as the 14k bulb, so by a meter reading alone it does appear to be 2x as good of a bulb as the other... but then you put it under a spectrometer and realize that only 30% of the light coming out of the bulb is in the 440nm area, making it actually a worse choice in lighting if your looking for coral growth. I just recently learned this information on my own by buying the equipment to do so. I had always had questions on lighting.. and I knew there was more information than just what is commonly out there, so I had to figure it out on my own. I have learned that even 1 year ago what I thought was the best lighting out there for my tank is actually not good at all... it works.. but I could accomplish much more for less $. I am correcting my mistakes now.. but this hobby always has something to teach you.

Edit: Ooops, all this talk about lighting, I meant to give my opinion on the original question about flow. IMO I think 20x turnover is bare minimum for a saltwater tank. Just my opinion.
 
Last edited:
Here is the good and bad with lighting.

Actinics - Good because they only put out the light spectrum corals need for photosynthesis. Bad because since the bulb is only putting out one small range of wavelength the PAR numbers coming off of them are much lower than daylight. Also bad because other wavelengths do play minor, yet important roles in the coloration of corals and actinics by themselves won't give you the best coloring to your eyes or in reality in the corals.

Daylight - Good to make your tank look more like day time lighting. Also good because most daylight bulbs put out just as much PAR in the 440nm range as an actinic so they are about even as far as lighting for corals are concerned. Another possitive is the other spectrums do bring out certain pigmentation of your corals to make them look better. The Bad with daylight is the same though... since they do put out a broad spectrum, the other 2 "peaks" in wavelength intensity is in the bad areas that promote algae growth. They have to put those in daylights though to balance out the blue spectrum and make it look more pleasing to the eye.

This is why I am now learning just recently that PAR readings by themselves are almost meaningless, just like wattage. PAR is from 400-700nm in wavelength, which is most of our visual range as well. 400 being deep blue until it drops off into the UV spectrum, 550 area is Green, 700 is Red, beyond 700 is Infrared. With a reef tank, your primary concern is coral health and making sure they get the lighting requirements they need. For corals, this is mostly 440nm area.. actinic. With a PAR meter/reading it will give you the total PAR output of the light, so it takes into account 400-700nm and gives you a number. Problem with that is, we are really only concerned about just the 440nm area, the others play just minor roles in corals. So what I am saying is, an actinic bulb will only give you a 300 and below PAR reading where as a daylight bulb will give you a 1000 PAR reading because it has more wavelengths of light to figure into the equation. Unfortunately, with just a PAR meter, you do not know how much of that 1000 PAR on the daylight bulb is actually just 440nm and how much is "bad" light for the tank. This is where a spectrometer comes in handy, you can break down the wavelengths of the daylight bulbs to see how much of each wavelength they put out. On my Phoenix 14k MH bulb, under a spectrometer, it appears about 75-80% of the output of the bulb is in the 440nm area, which IMO is VERY good for a "daylight" bulb. On the other hand, the bulb I thought was the best of the best at the time, the XM 10K, put out about double the PAR as the 14k bulb, so by a meter reading alone it does appear to be 2x as good of a bulb as the other... but then you put it under a spectrometer and realize that only 30% of the light coming out of the bulb is in the 440nm area, making it actually a worse choice in lighting if your looking for coral growth. I just recently learned this information on my own by buying the equipment to do so. I had always had questions on lighting.. and I knew there was more information than just what is commonly out there, so I had to figure it out on my own. I have learned that even 1 year ago what I thought was the best lighting out there for my tank is actually not good at all... it works.. but I could accomplish much more for less $. I am correcting my mistakes now.. but this hobby always has something to teach you.

Edit: Ooops, all this talk about lighting, I meant to give my opinion on the original question about flow. IMO I think 20x turnover is bare minimum for a saltwater tank. Just my opinion.

thanks
and don't worry about lighting advice. all info is good.also i should have mentioned my light set up. i have mine on timers with 2 t5 actinic on from 7 am to 7pm then 2 t5 daylite 10000k on from 9am to 5 pm then 1 250w halide on from 12pm to 4 pm.
my flow rate is around 21 x 75gal = 1600 gal per hr.the guy at the fish store told me i need a lot higher flow.tests of my water only confuses me more. ph 8.3 salinity 1.24 temp 79 phos .01 or lower amo 0 nitrate 0
also i use klakwasser drip into my sump. i change 15 gal every 2 weeks and clean my protien skimer cup every 2 days.
my tank never has cleared up. hair algae and red slime cyanobacteria.i have tired everything and i'm at my witts end. also i forgot i only use ro/di water my tds meter shows 0 tds as well.
 
Algae problems simplified version:
Lots of Phosphate Nitrate and plenty of sunshine is all it needs.

Flow keeps detritus suspended in the water vs settling in the substrate and breaking down. If its in the column it can be eaten or skimmed is the thing. Not main problem of algae...(flow that is) but it is still important.

You want to test for Phosphates especially from water source and in tank...

The way I put a big halt on algae problems is running a Phosban reactor with Phosban media... and using only RO/DI water.

You keep your phosphates at 0 and change water weekly at 10% while keeping your feeding in check... the algae will not take over.

Do keep a good clean up crew in the tank. Snails, hermits, for instance.

as for nitrates: we import by feeding and sometimes unkowingly by water sources. So check your top off water source... Exporting nitrates by water change /use of refugium ...controlled feeding... should keep this at bay.

Keep in mind I dont know your complete set up.... I may have missed some things to advise you on. Some folks Use canister filters ...I like to call Nitrate Factories...and by god they are.


thanks
i have about 100 crabs 50 snails and only use ro/di water tested to 0 tds
also i don't have any filter per say. i had a canister filter and was instructed to remove it. i have a 40 gal sump with my protien skimmer heaters and return pump in it. i only have a bag of charcoal in the sump.
i've been at this for about 1 year and can't get my rock to grow coraline algae. my rock goes from hair to red slime. when i get the hair starting to go the next day i can see the red slime starting. i keep doing what people sugest but nothing works. i know it must be something i'm doing or not doing. the lastest advise has lead me here and to ask this question.
see i was advised to use 2 tunze type power heads each at about 1800 gph
but also $249 ea.so i asked first this time before i throw away $500 and see no improvement.
i've been wanting to add some soft corals but i feel if i can't clear up this algae i will never keep the corals alive.it's very frustrating.
 
That sounds to me like something more serious is going on. Even though your phosphates test at zero, you may have a phosphate factory going on somewhere and they are simply bound up in the algae so you dont see it.

What I have done recently to solve my hair algae issue is:

1) I moved so i had the luxury of 'rinsing' all my rocks. By that I mean, I thoroughly shook them in the tank before I removed them removing any detritus.

2) I Removed all the old shells from dead snails and so forth from the sand bed and thoroughly rinsed them, dried them (for a few days) and put them back in the tank.

3) I turned off one bank of lights (i have 8 t5 ho's) and reduced the daily light cycle.

4) increased the light cycle on my refugium (with Chaeto)

5) I used a siphon hose with one end into a net over the sump and sucked out and disposed of any hair algae for a couple weeks every day. This was a lot easier than changing the water everyday.

6) I finished that all up with package of Phos-ban in order to clean out the phosphates in the system under the assumption I've gotten rid of whatever was producing them at this point.

So far it's working great, in just 24 hours I've seen a drastic reduction. I use RO/DI water that is 0ppm (and we have some the cleanest tap water in the US here form Lake Tahoe).
 
This is why I am now learning just recently that PAR readings by themselves are almost meaningless, just like wattage. PAR is from 400-700nm in wavelength, which is most of our visual range as well. 400 being deep blue until it drops off into the UV spectrum, 550 area is Green, 700 is Red, beyond 700 is Infrared. With a reef tank, your primary concern is coral health and making sure they get the lighting requirements they need. For corals, this is mostly 440nm area.. actinic. With a PAR meter/reading it will give you the total PAR output of the light, so it takes into account 400-700nm and gives you a number. Problem with that is, we are really only concerned about just the 440nm area, the others play just minor roles in corals. So what I am saying is, an actinic bulb will only give you a 300 and below PAR reading where as a daylight bulb will give you a 1000 PAR reading because it has more wavelengths of light to figure into the equation. Unfortunately, with just a PAR meter, you do not know how much of that 1000 PAR on the daylight bulb is actually just 440nm and how much is "bad" light for the tank. This is where a spectrometer comes in handy, you can break down the wavelengths of the daylight bulbs to see how much of each wavelength they put out. On my Phoenix 14k MH bulb, under a spectrometer, it appears about 75-80% of the output of the bulb is in the 440nm area, which IMO is VERY good for a "daylight" bulb. On the other hand, the bulb I thought was the best of the best at the time, the XM 10K, put out about double the PAR as the 14k bulb, so by a meter reading alone it does appear to be 2x as good of a bulb as the other... but then you put it under a spectrometer and realize that only 30% of the light coming out of the bulb is in the 440nm area, making it actually a worse choice in lighting if your looking for coral growth. I just recently learned this information on my own by buying the equipment to do so. I had always had questions on lighting.. and I knew there was more information than just what is commonly out there, so I had to figure it out on my own. I have learned that even 1 year ago what I thought was the best lighting out there for my tank is actually not good at all... it works.. but I could accomplish much more for less $. I am correcting my mistakes now.. but this hobby always has something to teach you.

Edit: Ooops, all this talk about lighting, I meant to give my opinion on the original question about flow. IMO I think 20x turnover is bare minimum for a saltwater tank. Just my opinion.

PAR stands for "photosynthetically available (or active) radiation. It is a measure that already accounts for wavelengths, so extra consideration of wavelengths serves no purpose. Other measures, like wattage, lux, and lumens account for all visible light, not the photosynthetic range. A broader range of wavelengths within photosynthetic range are optimal, since that allows the maximum amount of energy for the corals as possible (even though for chlorophyll, the greatest spikes are in the red and blue regions). They have lots of other accessory pigments that allow them to take advantage of this. This, of course, depends upon the coral, collection spot, etc., but by and large, this is the ideal. PAR only accounts for photosynthesis, not aesthetics, though. That is where some people may not like it, since it is not always pleasing to the eye. Overall, though, blue light isn't correlated to coral growth.

As far as the circulation goes, my recommendation is always "lots." Basically this means as much as what is practical. You'll almost always get better results with increased water motion.
 
AquariaCentral.com