Guppies - Varying Symptoms - Sacrifice two to save two?

R

redperphexion

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Jun 19, 2009
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Canada
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Laura
I set up my 10 gal guppy tank about a week ago. It had already run with gravel and filter media from my well-established goldfish tank for a couple of weeks. I know this is a long post for 'just guppies'... but I really want this to work out, and I do not want them to suffer at all. So here goes.

The background on the tank is: I had rescued two fish from riding the porceline express (a relative no longer wanted them), a single tiger barb and a chinese algea eater, and kept them temporarily in the tank (possibly 2 weeks? maybe 3?). I know neither of these fish are suited to a 10 gallon being agressive/schooling fish. So, I took them to my lfs who gladly accepted them (I assume this means they appeared in good health, as their bag was floated in the tiger barb tank while I was still there, but I'm no expert).

The same day, I bought 2 albino corys, 1 male fancy guppy and 3 female fancy guppies for my tank. I thought this was a better stocking for a 10 gallon, and I've always wanted guppies since I was little.

Perhaps 3 days ago one of my females' gravid spot began to redden. The next day, she was expelling a white flowing length of what I can only assume were miscarried fry, as her belly is getting less pregnant, too. (Not to spare any gory details, it looked like she was passing her intestines.) Otherwise she looked good - I assumed this was stress of being moved from store to home.

I have not tested my water at all. (Ten lashes with a wet noodle for me.) I've been doing 15-20% water change and gravel vacuum every 2-3 days, as I figured 6 little fish were going to put a heavier load on my fresh tank than one tiger barb and a cae. The temperature hits 81 by evening with the heater and lamp on, and when by the morning without the lamp on, it's usually around 78.

Then just today the tank light was left off all day by accident by my darling bf. When I turned it on after work, my un-preggers female (who's always seemed meekest) has a receding upper mandible, and her right fin is cloudy and tattered. She's staying near the surface and not schooling with the other girls as much. Still swims around and visits mid-tank level now and then.

First thing I thought - mouth and tail rot.

So I looked at my other fish and saw that the other smaller female now has from her tail fin 1/3 of the way up her body a light, swollen patch where her scales remind me of honeycomb - even in how delicate they look. Otherwise she's swimming and eating as usual.

Next thing I thought - they're doomed - dropsy. (My rookie-fish-brain assumes the worst, as I have no experience with this beyond my goldfish who are angels. knocking on wood...)

The male has a very slightly melted look to the edge of his tail fin, otherwise he seems fine. My Big Mama, as I like to call her, seems fine as well with her big pregger belly, although she's not chasing the other girls the way she usually does. My corys don't seem to even notice anything's going on; they're being their usual Tweedle-Dee and Tweedle-Dum goofing off.

SO!

(After freaking out slightly) I did a 20% water change, dropped in one Fungus Clear Tank Buddy (as that's all I have in the way of meds...), and after much flip-flopping and net surfing, I wished and prayed while adding 2 Tbsp pure rock salt to their fresh WC water, along with a healthy (perhaps double?) does of water conditioner. What can I say, I panicked.

Only after the fact did I realize that consulting you fine group of fishy experts would really have been the best idea. I do have some pictures, but I'll have to post them possibly tomorrow, as I've got to get -some- sleep before tomorrow comes. On that note, I have a couple of questions:

1) Did I do anything stupid already?

2) What do I do next?

3) I have no hospital tank, and I'm worried the two sickest girls are going to make things worse for the rest of my fish, as well as suffering, possibly badly, themselves... at what point do you think 'destroying' them to save the other fish disease and suffering (as I've read on some posts) the best option?

4) Are they doomed? :(


Thanks for any suggestions/comments. I'll post again in the morning if there are any major developments overnight.
 
You are not doomed and I don't blame you for raising or wanting guppies ( I love the little boogers and have loads of them myself)

I don't believe destroying them will save any of the others as whatever fungus or the like they are likely all exposed to anyway.
When you brought the guppies home from the LFS how did you acclimate them? If you used the LFS recommended " float the bag for 15 minutes and release" sometimes guppies don't do very well with that..... I get much better results with using a slower drip acclimation method by putting them in a clean tea pitcher ( never used for anything else) and adding a bit of tank water at a time until the pitcher is full then scoop out the fish and add it to the tank.
I don't think you have done anything too bad adding the salt is fine for guppies at that level (no snails though)

Make sure when you are doing your water changes that the water you are replacing into the tank is the same temp. or very close as the existing tank water and that you have used a good dechlor. product ( like prime)

I'd try to get your temp. stabilized to a 76- 78 degrees or so 81 is a bit hot although it shouldn't kill your fish just might stress them a bit.

I would also add some extra air (like an air stone) to one side so it doesn't blow the weaker fish around but adds extra oxygen to the tank.

I didn't see where you mentioned your filtration set up for the tank or how you cleaned that or what type of media you run in there - that might help in diagnosing.


Sorry my thoughts are so scattered tonight I hope your fish recover.
 
It sounds like classic symptoms of Columnaris to me. As this is a 10 gallon tank and all of the fish are new there is no point to a QT fish. You will just need to treat the entire tank.

Columnaris is a bacterial infection and will require antibiotic (Marycin, tetracycline, or erythromyicin) or a sulfa based treatment. You will need to pick some immediately or you most likely will lose all of the fish in the tank.

This is a highly contagious disease so be careful not to transfer the pathogen to your established goldies. Washing your hands between touching the two tanks and not using any of the same equipment is recommended.

http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/articles/columnaris.html

Adding in the salt and the Jungle buddies at this point are not going to affect the outcome. I'd discontinue it's use and do daily water changes.

These things happen to the best of us. Get the correct meds ASAP and hope for the best.

Euthanizing guppies is hard to tell when. I've seen apparently healthy fish, active and feeding the day before, die the next. I've also seen fish that I was sure they only had minutes to live make a full recovery.
 
So, this morning they seem better. Could be wishful thinking? I left the air off overnight after thinking long and hard about it - I thought they'd get a good rest from the current of the tank. Tail Girl's tail is not as inflamed looking, although is still very affected, and Mouth Girl is -much- more active this morning. The other fish still all look about the same and well.

huffmagx said:
Make sure when you are doing your water changes that the water you are replacing into the tank is the same temp. or very close as the existing tank water and that you have used a good dechlor. product ( like prime)

I'd try to get your temp. stabilized to a 76- 78 degrees or so 81 is a bit hot although it shouldn't kill your fish just might stress them a bit.

I would also add some extra air (like an air stone) to one side so it doesn't blow the weaker fish around but adds extra oxygen to the tank.

I didn't see where you mentioned your filtration set up for the tank or how you cleaned that or what type of media you run in there - that might help in diagnosing.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply! When I do a water change, I use my tank thermometer to make sure the temp is withing a degree. I add it as slowly as I have patience for (depends on the day). I used to use Big Al's brand water conditioner, but recently ran out and bought Nutrafin AquaPlus for the meantime. I do have a "bubble wall" running, but I have it curled up in a spiral at one end of the tank to leave some calmer water at the other end. It's at the same end as my Whisper 10 Tetra brand filter. My lfs ran out of the cartridges, so I have been using something 'similar' until I can get my usual ones. These are usually little felt baggies with carbon in them. The current substitute is felt with a plastic frame and (there was, but I removed) the carbon from inside.

Temperature is a sticky one... my lamp, left on all day, brings the temp up to almost 80 on its own over the daytime. I've heard that the drop overnight should not be more than 4 degrees, and so my tank heater keeps it at at least 77 overnight. How can I fix this over-heating problem? I don't want to leave the light off all day, as the tank gets next to no indirect light where it is. (My apartment is East-facing and it's dead of winter, here.)

I have a feeling the tube on my Python siphon hose could be a culprit - sometimes it takes a full 24 hours to dry completely after a water change. Although, I only use it for outgoing water, never to refill the tanks.

Thank you huffmagx!

The V, thank you for your recommendation. I will do my best to get to the store tonight after work (that's asap for me) to get some Marycin or tetracycline. There is nitrofurazone, furazolidone, and potassium dichromate in the medication I used last night - are all of these fine to mix with another antibiotic?

And, yes, I would die if my goldfish (and loach) got sick. I have not gone near the tank yet... I don't plan on it, at least until my other tank's been treated. Goodness knows they're not starving... little piggies.

Thanks again for your support. I will be crossing my fingers as much as possible today.

Again, I'll have to hold off on posting pics, as I was up late worrying about these little suckers and am running behind. I hate rushed mornings... don't you? Sorry for typos - speed typing here! :)
 
So, I have the Maracyn here. I also found a picture online of almost exactly what the affected tail looks like here:
http://www.jbl.de/onlinehospitaluk/perpicture/hospital_pictures/005_s.jpg
I'm going to add the treatment now and let's hope for the best!

The pH is >7.6 ... if that means much of anything, my city water's even more alkaline (although both are off the scale of my test kit, so I don't know the exact values).

Thanks again for your help. They lasted through today, at least.
 
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Good recommendation on the Marycyn ( I have used it with much success on many ills) and it treats a broad range of conditions so good med. to have on hand....pricey but good.

I wouldn't worry about a slow raise of temp. during the day when the light is on too much some things are difficult to fix. You could try hooking the light to a timer if it really bothers you to leave it on for a shorter period of time but I really don't think its a big deal.

I do use carbon in my tank but I know lots of folks that run just fine without it so its not absolutely necessary. Your PH looks pretty good to me ( perfect snail water!) mine is close to there as well and I add crushed coral to my filter ( in a media bag) that helps to stabilize PH swings not essential for guppies but I keep snails as well.
 
Thanks guys!

Tonight Tail Girl is looking less inflamed, but I'm very worried about Mouth Girl. Her mouth is no worse, but she's constantly gasping at the surface, and all of her fins except her dorsal fin look like they're disintegrating. She's still expelling long white mucous-looking trails, though. It's not something attached, because she's clearly passing it from somewhere. Could she have an internal infection and be incubating and spreading it around? Her eyes have gone greyish and her gills are totally swollen... I feel so bad that she's suffering, and I'm starting to wonder if she'd be happier in fishy heaven with healthy fishangel fins, eyes and mouth. Any thoughts....? :(
 
Mouth Girl is no longer eating. Her fins don't look so fuzzy, but they're still looking pretty tattered. Her gills are even more swollen today. I think i will look for clove oil at the store today... :shakehead:
 
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