Figure 8 Puffers - How many?

[Xabbusan]

I just about have a 60 gallon tank cycled and ready for fish. I have been scaping, planting, and fishless-cycling 3 tanks from scratch for the last couple of months and am getting EXCITED for fish! I have a 16 gallon bowfront, 20 gallon, and a 60 gallon. (Ignore the cloudiness and brown algae as I said, I am still cycling. I also moved the sword plant a bit further back in the 16 gallon last night)

I have been back and forth, back and forth, on fish stock for the 60 gallon for months. I was originally going to put in Tropheus and then re-scaped for 6 amazon puffers, and they FINALLY became available at my LFS... however they are a bit expensive for me to be able to buy a decent school. $30/each which is a little much for me right now (plus i'm terrified something will happen and then i'm out $180 worth of fish).

Instead, I have been looking at Figure 8 puffers, which I had dismissed before because I didn't feel like researching brackish tanks lol. BUT, I went ahead and did some research and think I will be just fine running my first brackish tank. I just got some marine salt and a refractometer in the mail yesterday.

During my researching I have seen about 50% say only to keep one puffer, and 50% say that you could keep a pair of Figure 8's as long as you started them together when they were juveniles.

What do you guys think? I have posted other puffer questions here in the past and there seem to be a lot of users that have experience with puffers on this forum.

**feel free to comment on my other tank ideas below too if you see something wrong or have a suggestion. I have not added fish to any of them yet, just plants.

60 Gallons 48x12x24 ~ Figure 8 Puffers (2) and Bumblebee Gobies (4-6)
Cascade 1000 canister filter
Aquaclear 70 HOB filter (just added, not in pic yet)
2 x Fluval E 300w heaters
*have not started adding salt yet, so no SG reading
Substrate - Seachem Flourite black sand and red gravel + pool filter sand on the sides
Root tabs and liquid ferts
No Co2 (might look into adding this later, but it's too expensive right now)
Finnex Planted Plus 24/7 LED light
Amazon Sword
Red Flame Sword
Marimo, nano (these may be moved depending on how they do. I am running kind of high temps right now for cycling ~80F~ and they are doing so-so with that)
Italian Vallisneria
Moneywort
***Plants are just starting to really grow. I will be trimming and propagating this weekend. This will eventually be dense plants in the middle and maybe Val all around the back and sides.

20 Gallons 24x12x16 ~ Male Betta (1) Nerite Snale (1) Corydoras habrosus (8-10)
Bacto-Surge Sponge Filter (75gallon)
100w Heater
Substrate - Mix of Seachem Flourite black sand and pool filter sand (left-over from 60 gallon re-scape)
Root tabs and liquid ferts
No Co2
NICREW LED Light
Anubius Nana
Red Flame Sword
Marimo, nano
Italian Vallisneria
Moneywort

16 Gallon 20x13x18 ~ Dwarf Puffer (1-4) *haven't fully decided on just 1 or enough to spread aggression
Aquaclear 30 HOB filter
Fluval E 100w heater
Substrate - Seachem Flourite black sand and red gravel
Root tabs and liquid ferts
No Co2
Built-in LED lights ~ no idea on the specs. Attached to the lid, which is attached to the tank
Amazon Sword
Italian Vallisneria
Red Flame Sword
Marimo, nano
Bacopa
Java Fern Windelov
Moneywort

 

[Bertie B]

you can keep them singly or in large groups, i would go for one and have some other brckish fish

 

[Xabbusan]

Ok sounds good. That's kind of what I was leaning towards.

Do you know about dwarf puffers and otos? I was thinking of either doing my 16 gallon with 1 dwarf puffer and 4-6 otos or just 3-4 puffers and no otos.

 

[OrionGirl]

Couple of points...the plants will not survive high-end brackish water. Java fern can tolerate low brackish, but the rest will die in conditions more than about 1.005 SG, Also, you will need to cycle again after adding salt--the bacteria aren't the same. I would plan on getting salt tolerant plants, and planting MUCH more heavily, adding more wood as well to break up the line of sight across the length of the tank--that will increase the odds that they will leave each other alone.

However, more important....know what species you are getting. True figure 8 puffers are freshwater/light brackish. They are often confused with juvenile green spotted puffers, which are brackish as juveniles but full marine as adults.

For pea puffers...I've not had luck keeping them in large groups or in small groups in small tanks. I'd go for one, and then monitor to be sure it isn't harassing the otos.

Do you have a plan for feeding them? While the pea puffers don't have as big an issue overgrowth, it is a serious problem for the larger species if they aren't fed enough crunchy foods to wear down their beaks.

 

[Xabbusan]

.the plants will not survive high-end brackish water. Java fern can tolerate low brackish, but the rest will die in conditions more than about 1.005 SG

I can move plants around and put some in my other tanks if that is case. Do you have suggestions for brackish plants? I thought I had read that bacopa was fine in brackish at least. It will be very low brackish which is why I was thinking the plants might be ok. I contacted the source I will be getting my fish from and they said they keep them at SG 1.005. I will be planting as heavily as I can afford. My LFS seems like they are bit pricey so I am starting to look for a good online source. Ex. the plants that you see across all 3 tanks cost a total of $100 (same thing with wood. I would love to add a crap ton of wood and plants but I can't see a way to do that all at once without spending hundreds of dollars). I am hoping they will start to fill in more over the next few weeks with regular trimming.

Also, you will need to cycle again after adding salt--the bacteria aren't the same

I was wondering about that. I tried researching if that would be a problem but couldn't find anything. If I add in the salt slowly over the course of a week or two would that help? I don't have fish yet, so if I have to start over, then lol that sucks but it's fine.

However, more important....know what species you are getting. True figure 8 puffers are freshwater/light brackish. They are often confused with juvenile green spotted puffers

I have done a bunch of research on different puffers and yes, I understand about the Figure 8's and their water requirements. The only thing I couldn't find in write-ups is definitive info on whether you could keep multiple together or not like the amazons. Seemed to vary from paper to paper.

For pea puffers...I've not had luck keeping them in large groups or in small groups in small tanks. I'd go for one, and then monitor to be sure it isn't harassing the otos.

Ok, yeah I will just go with the one. I will definitely be keeping an eye on the otos. I can always move them into the 20 gallon if need be (I also have more backup tanks if needed, they are just not setup). I'm going to be stocking each tank one at a time to make sure everything is hunky dory so that if I do have problems I will have a backup.

Do you have a plan for feeding them? While the pea puffers don't have as big an issue overgrowth, it is a serious problem for the larger species if they aren't fed enough crunchy foods to wear down their beaks.

The plants I got from my LFS came with crazy amounts of ramshorn snails. the 16 gallon right now has probably 50-60 snails, the 20 gallon a little bit less but still a ton, and the 60 gallon just has a few from some reason. Maybe they are just harder to see in the big tank though. They are breeding like crazy. I figured I would use my 20 gallon with the future betta and corys as a snail breeder also since my other two tanks will have puffers that may wipe them out too fast in their own tanks. I also have a spare 5 gallon I could setup to breed snails if needed.

 

[Xabbusan]

Ok, so I came up with some new ideas for the plants. From what I was reading it seems like these would all do ok in low end brackish.

Maybe I will wait a bit longer for fish even once my tanks are cycled :'( . That way I can give some more time for the plants to fill in.

Vallisneria
Bacopa
Java Fern
Java Moss
Anubius
Crypt undulata
Micro Sword
Sagittaria subulata

 

[OrionGirl]

Better plan for the plants. I know that moneywort and many swords aren't great in brackish long term--one of the problems with relying on stores for advice is that they seldom have the plant or animal for long enough to really evaluate it's long term reaction to conditions.

Figure 8's aren't murderous, they're just a bit territorial. The more you can break up the line of site across the tank, the better.

 

[Xabbusan]

I just gotta have patience. Lol I remember back in the day when I knew nothing and had a 150 gallon tank setup with fish within a week. I'm surprised those oscars survived as long as they did. I've already been at this for a couple months now but I will just have to wait a bit longer

 

[OrionGirl]

Big tanks can cover a variety of mistakes.

But, patience is rewarded when dealing with more fragile fish. If you can, purchase the puffers from a store that quarantines. Puffers are VERY prone to ick, and I'd recommend putting them in something smaller initially, just so you can monitor them more closely and treat easier than in a big tank.

 

[Xabbusan]

Yeah that's probably a good idea. I have calmed myself down lol and am now all for waiting as long as it takes. Honestly, I am having a good time with my plants and snails and getting everything situated the way I want it, so hopefully in a month or two I will start looking at getting fish again. I will probably setup a 20 long that I have as a quarantine tank in the meantime (well once my other tanks are cycled).

I just made my first online plant purchase so hopefully that all goes well. I purchased from Jacob's Aquarium.

Do you think I should start adding in salt now? or should I let my tank cycle freshwater first? I just started seeing some nitrites and the ammonia dropping yesterday. So I don't really know if I should let that play out and then slowly change over to brackish over 2-3 weeks or if I should just say screw it and throw in the salt now and re-cycle before I waste more time?

I moved out all of my plants today that would not fare well in brackish.