Dwarf Sag 'melting' away... too much light?

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Dwarfnut

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Nov 27, 2002
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Can you have too much light for dwarf Sag.... what are the ideal requirements? Most places say moderate light, so what does that mean?

I bought a good sized bunch a while back and split in between my 20 and 40 gallon tank. The 20 gallon has 3 screw-in compacts, about 19 watts each I think. My 40 gallon has a total of 6 36" flourescent bulbs... 2 5,000K, 2 6,500 K and 2 actinic bulbs... is that too much?

I ask because the 20 gallon is growing great but in the 40 gallon it is dying. Both get the same ferts and such, so I'm thinking the light may be too much in my 40 gallon.

Thanks,
Bill C.
 
Bill - you gave us the kelvin rating on the tubes in the 40, but not the wattage.
I can't imagine too much light for Sag. Many plants are labeled low/moderate/high light, but you wouldn't believe the growth you'll get on Java Ferns('Low/moderate plants') with high light. I've pulled them out of tanks with 12-15" leaves with 3 lobes on them in higher light.
Give us the wattage over the 40 gal.

Len
 
Oooops, Sorry, the wattage for a normal 36" flourescent is either 25 or 30 watts. The 2 6,500K bulbs are listed as 25 watt, whereas the 5,000K and the actinics look to be 30 watts. I'm not exactly sure how you are supposed to measure the input from the actincs tho... the guy at the lighting store says that they will still add to the total light calculation like a normal bulbs, it's just the light is in a different spectrum. I like it because it adds a really nice 'coolness' to the tank and makes it look much better IMO!

So, without the actincs in the calcs, I come up with about 2.75 wpg which I think should be a real good number...

If you add the 2 actincs into the calcs as normal lights, then I get about 4.25 wpg which I could then see as being pretty high!

So I figure I have somewhere between 2.75 and 4.25 wpg!! So is getting over 3wpg too much for the dwarf sag??

Thanks again,
 
I don't think 3 or 4 wpg is too much for dwarf sag. All the AGA contentasts with sag have tons of light. Are you injecting CO2 into the 40? You probably should be. Also, is this sag underneath the acintics? I'm thinking maybe it isn't getting enough light in the right spectrum but that's unlikely.
 
At first glance,I agree with Captain, this seems like a nutrient issue. If not, it may have to do with the placement under the lights. Even in my 75 that has 350w of MH, I still have to be careful where I place highlight plants. Make sure its not being shaded at all and that it is in the middle of the tank. Light disminishes a lot from the middle to the end of a NO Flouresescent tube. Also, how tall is a 40 gallon tank? If it is really talll tank, the NO might be intense enough to penetrate down that far. Are you growing other high plants successfully in that tank? IME, true Dwarf sag(the 1"-2" stuff) needs pretty high light to actually grow and multiply. But, if it is actaully melting away I would think it may have something to do with a nutrient issue. Give us your water specs, fertilizer regimen, and what substrate you have and we may be able to better help you.
 
Thanks for the help so far... I think you have pretty much answered the question that I'm not hitting then with too much light, so that's good! I will also agree that it is probably a nutrient issue. My nutrient regimen is pretty spotty at best using weekly doses of Miraclegro Rose food (leftover stuff!), some Iron providing liquid fert (once a week also, the name escapes me right now!) and some Jobes plant spikes under the substrate by the larger plants like swords. I am not using any Co2 at this point.

The 40 gallon is a breeder tank, 36" wide, 18" deep, and about 16" tall, so not really that tall. I have the actinincs 'spaced out' between the other bulbs so they are not centered over one area. Also, the dwarf sag is not being shaded by anything else. All the other plants seem to be doing fine, among them are some swords, Rotala, java ferns, and several others I don't know the names of!

In summary, the problems seemed to start when I re-configured and added some additional lighting. I went from 2 36" flourscents and 2 screw-in compacts to what I have now. I have also noticed that for the past several weeks, I'm getting a lot more algae in the form of green thread algae. Based on what you guys have said and my own observations, I think it's time to add some Co2 and watch the nutrients better. Does anyone have a recommended nutrient dosing regimen? I'll probably try the DIY Co2 at first and see where that goes. I am running an extra penguin 400 filter on this tank for the past several weeks now that I think about it to get it 'cycled', so could that be causing any problems? That will make 2 400's on the tank as one is the normal filter for it. I'm getting ready to move in about a week and after that things will be much better as I'll be back to one filter, the fish will get spread out more, and I'll be able to hopefully find and unpack some test kits!!

Substrate is a mix of flourite and the Tex-blast filter sand, about 3" deep. Water params are pretty soft water filtered thru some peat, temp about 79-80F, ph around 6.8 - 7.0 or so. I don't have a hardness test kit, so can't get much more detailed.

Thanks again for all the help and any suggestions.

Bill C.
 
My nutrient regimen is pretty spotty at best using weekly doses of Miraclegro Rose food (leftover stuff!), some Iron providing liquid fert (once a week also, the name escapes me right now!) and some Jobes plant spikes under the substrate by the larger plants like swords. I am not using any Co2 at this point.
Click to expand...

How long have you been doing this? Has it worked well before? I think I would have almost nothing but algae dosing that way, but as with anything else there is more than one right way. But heres my opinion and what I would do.

First, I would stop the miracle gro at once. That might be the source of your algae problem, I think it has lots of stuff algae love and the fish aren't to fond of. Second, I would stop the jobes until you have the algae issue covered for the same reasons. Both of these provide macro nutreints N,P,K. You probably don't need much or any addtional of those other than K unitl you get the CO2 and the plants growing fast. I don't know if I can give you an exact dosing regimen, I am always experimenting. But to start, my suggestion would be go pick up some Seachem Flourish and follow the bottle directions. This will provide all the necessary micro nutreints. Also, go to the grocery store and pick up some Nu-Salt in the spice aisle. I would add 1/4 tsp once to twice a week. This will add potassium(K). I dump mine right into the filter so it can dissolve. Then, if your swords,etc look like they need more iron start with iron rich root tablets under those plants. If you need still more iron get Flourish iron and dose according to the bottle. This is a good start, as you add the CO2, do some more research and learn what you need to add to what level for proper plant growth. I hope this helps.
 
LOL,
yeah, I've kinda figured that was the cause of the algae! But it's funny, but when I had the tank set up with the lower amount of light, adding the miracle-gro food along with some stump remover once in a while cleared up the algae!! I was using DIY Co2 back then, but that was before I moved the first time and I didn't set everything back up!

I'll try making some changes to the ferts once I get everything in it's final home after this move!!

Thanks,
Bill C.
 
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