Cycling with raw fish???
- Thread starter ara35
- Start date
you can use raw fish, raw shrimp, or fish food. They all contain protein, so will break down into ammonia during decomposition. The problem is that it's hard to get exact ammonia readings. See this for instructions on fishless cycling
http://www.aquariumboard.com/forums/articles/26-cycling-tank-fw.html
Sorry, can't give you personal tips, as I've never done it myself. I plan to, though, with my next tank. I will probably be using the fish food method as I can't seem to locate pure ammonia.
http://www.aquariumboard.com/forums/articles/26-cycling-tank-fw.html
Sorry, can't give you personal tips, as I've never done it myself. I plan to, though, with my next tank. I will probably be using the fish food method as I can't seem to locate pure ammonia.
Not overly familiar w/ rawfish as the source but I imagine the principle to be the same as using fish food. Here's a couple of ways to go about it. Sorry, can't give you personal tips, as I've never done it myself. I plan to, though, with my next tank. I will probably be using the fish food method as I can't seem to locate pure ammonia
"P", try Walmart (I believe their 'house' brand is Amex). Most grocery or hardware stores will have a 'no-name brand'. (it won't be pure NH3). As long as it's CLEAR ammonia. No colors or additives. Shake the bottle, if no suds, you're good to go. Once you go 'Fishless' you'll nerver go back!!!
Fishless Cycling of the Aquarium
Using Fish Food | Using Pure Ammonia
Another Form of Cycling a Tank is without Fish
Set up the tank with all the equipment needed (filtration, heater, light, protein skimmer for marine and reef tanks). Start it up, setting the heater to a temperature around 80 F, then simply feed the tank with fish food. The decaying food will release ammonia and the tank starts the cycling process. To further speed up this process the tank can be seeded with gravel from an existing tank, filter cartridges from established filters, filter media of any kind, biowheels, drift wood, rocks, all taken from established tanks.
Bacteria colonize all of the above, so seeding basically means the introduction of existing bacteria colonies into a new tank. The decaying food will provide ammonia for these colonies to settle and expand in the new tank.
The time frame of this method does not vary much with the time needed using the classical form of cycling. There is significant risk to create by-products such as phosphates, which occurs by decaying food. The ammonia produced might also be insufficient to create enough bacteria colonies to hold the fish when they are introduced. This will trigger another growth of bacteria with the spikes in ammonia and nitrites.
These re-renewed spikes however will be much shorter and less intense compared to the initial ones experienced during the primary cycle. Consequences for the fish are minimal, making this at least fish-friendlier.
Both forms of cycling have one thing in common - Ammonia.
Remember that a tank has cycled if ammonia and nitrites are back at 0 ppm. At this time you can stock the tank with fish. If no fish are introduced, the bacteria will need to be fed by continuing with the addition of fish food or pure ammonia as outlined below.
Using Pure Ammonia to Cycle
Instead of using fish food for ammonia production, we can also introduce pure ammonia to the tank.
After the tank has been set up (see above), add 5 drops of ammonia per 10 Gallons into the water on a daily basis.
Ammonia will rise to 5 ppm and higher. As soon as nitrites are measurable, reduce the ammonia input to 3 drops per day. Nitrites will rise to similar levels. Keep adding 2-3 drops until the measurements of ammonia and nitrites come out with 0 ppm. The tank has then completely cycled.
Seeding the tank can significantly enhance this process. 7 days for a complete cycle are not unheard of; otherwise this methods takes 2-3 weeks.
The bacteria colonies, using this method, are certainly large enough to handle a well-stocked aquarium.
Some aspects to consider:
The tank has to be well oxygenated as the bacteria require oxygen
The ammonia used should be free of any perfumes and additives
Do not treat the water with conditioners that remove ammonia
Water changes are only necessary if the ammonia and nitrite levels are far off level, which should only occur if more than 5 drops is used per 10 Gallons of water. After the cycle has been completed use activated carbon to remove any possible perfume or additives, which might have been in the ammonia.
After stocking your tank with fish, general maintenance of the aquarium is all that is required. The bacteria will adjust to the fish load and if you plan to add new fish the bacteria will have to adjust again.
Keep in mind to feed your tank with ammonia until you introduce fish. The waste generated by your fish will then provide the tank with all that is needed to balance the environment.
With this method, all aquarium types can be cycled in a very short period of time.
Professionals use the ammonia drop method to keep live sand and rock alive, which they sell in their stores.
We recommend you read about the nitrogen cycle so you have an understanding about what happens during this cycling period. You will also need ammonia, nitrite and nitrate test kits to perform your daily testing of the water.
©1997-2005 ALGONE CORPORATION, All Rights Reserved
Hope this helps. Good Luck
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I wouldn't recommend raw fish for several reasons:
a) it's not as quick as ammonia because the fish takes quite a bit of time to decompose before it turns into ammonia (a few days, rather than instant ammonia)
b) it's harder to get consistent amounts of ammonia with raw fish, easier with an eyedropper of ammonia
c) raw fish can carry salmonella bacteria which could spread to you and make you sick
If you can get pure ammonia, I would recommend using that. Even fish food would probably be a safer way to cycle IMO, as there is less chance of spreading disease.
a) it's not as quick as ammonia because the fish takes quite a bit of time to decompose before it turns into ammonia (a few days, rather than instant ammonia)
b) it's harder to get consistent amounts of ammonia with raw fish, easier with an eyedropper of ammonia
c) raw fish can carry salmonella bacteria which could spread to you and make you sick
If you can get pure ammonia, I would recommend using that. Even fish food would probably be a safer way to cycle IMO, as there is less chance of spreading disease.
Good point "Ms.B". Never considered the salmonella angle. Better to stick w/ the 'conventional' sources ara35. Speeding up the process is the whole point (besides sparing the lil fishies). 'Seeding' will give you a jump start. A product called bio-spira http://www.marineland.com/products/mllabs/ML_biospira.asp can also be used to decrease the 'cycle' time. A bit pricey but when properly stored & applied is very effective. Cycled my 110gl w/ 'seeding', bio-spira & clear ammonia in 8 days. Your results may vary. Good Luck
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Just to clarify things, Cycling with or without fish takes roughly the same time, cycling with bacteria starters likewsie takes roughly the same time with or without fish. Bacteria starter colonies do jump start the process and reduce time frames, Fishless or fishy makes no difference at all.
the point of a fishless cycle is to:
1. Prepare the tank for full bio load at once
2. reduce the risk to live animals
3. reduce the work level to the fish keeper.
Using any type of decaying matter will work, but is largely uncontrolled and really makes things more difficult not to mention the smell that you have to tolerate. it would only be a viable option to me if I could not find any other source of ammonia anywhere. It does however work.
just an FYI, nitrite eaters are not fond of high ammonia levels. I would not ever reccomend going above 5 ppm during a fishless, and once nitrites begin to appear I reccomend dropping to 3 ppm or so. Overdosing ammonia can and will stall the cycle. add what you need to achieve 5 ppm at the onset, and once things start working dose to 3 ppm once a day until the cycle is estabilished. The number of drops will depend on the concentration of ammonia you use, and many products contain different levels. Use you test kit to estabilish correct dosing amounts, don't trust set measurements that you haven't verified.
Maybe next time someone writes in that they started a new tank and all their fish died, we should say "good - just let them rest in peace in your tank. In a couple of months you will be ready for live ones..."
Cathy
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Cathy
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I'll admit there are a number of schools of thought when it comes to this subject so I will quantify my statements w/ "FOR ME" so as not to confuse or mislead others that might not have traveled the different or like roads that you & I may have already traveled. "FOR ME" speeding up the process was the point. I imagine others might put sparing live animals as # 1 & still others might find the idea of adding a full compliment of fish the most important reason.
"FOR ME" the fishless cycle was definitely shorter. Prior cycling attempts varied, shortest being 6wks. longest being 11wks. My first time fishless - 4wks. (a little too free w/ the ammonia? maybe) was actually my longest. Several others that followed avg. 2/3 wks. w/ the shortest being 8 days.
"FOR ME" bacteria "starters" such as 'NutraFins Cycle' or 'A/P's StressZyme' never seemed to "aid in rapidly maturing new aquarium water" as the mfg. claimed. On the other hand, the 'live' bacteria cultures contained in 'Bio Spira' made a significant difference in the cycle time w/ my 110gl. (8 days!!) Just for the record, I think MarineLands claim of introducing fish safely in 24hrs. is a bit exaggerated.
None of this was done under 'specific test conditions' or a 'double blind' study. These are just random experiences of an everyday hobbiest. It's a given that the experiences of others will vary for a number of reasons. Different tank setups, ammonia quality, ammonia quantity (watch that eyedropper), seed material, temp. variations ect., ect. If I was to start my 110gl over from scratch, I couldn't guarantee duplicating an 8 day cycle. I would be willing to bet, however, it wouldn't take the 6wks. it took w/ 'conventional' cycle. But that's "FOR ME" !! Good Luck
plah831 said:
Plah (sorry, don't know your name) any generic brand that says "clear" ammonia is satisfactory. You can get it at your local Safeway.Shake it up to see if it suds/foams. If it does, it has other additives besides water.