Betta with white spots

[ike2112]

Hi,
Looking for help - I was doing water change today and noticed my betta has white spots on his left side behind his fins (i guess at gills), it looks almost like ulcers.

I wouldn't say his behaviour has been any different to normal, and he is eating same as usual.
Just about 10 days ago we added new fish to the tank; 4 rummynose and a zebra snail.

It is a 40 litre tank.
Inhabitants are 7 neon tetra, blue betta, 4 rummynose, 2 albino corydoras, 1 rabbit snail one red snail one zebra snail. Live plants.
The tank has been going for 7 weeks, fish transferred from a 20ltr tank - in all we've had the neons and betta for over 4 months.

Really worried about what this is. Explanations online suggest maybe ich but then when I saw a video it doesn't really look like that. No fin issues that I can see.

So far all I've done is add some aquarium salt, I don't have any other fish medicine available anyway.

Only other thing to mention - just yday I noticed tiny white things on the log in the tank, look like eggs or something (see pic attached). No idea what they are, if its related to whats happening to the betta.

 

[OrionGirl]

White things on the log are eggs from the zebra snail. They won't hatch, nerites require brackish water for reproduction.

Pictures aren't clear enough to determine the betta's problem, but it sounds like a water quality issue. That's a LOT of fish in a small tank. What are the nitrogen readings? How often do you perform water changes?

Also, please note that rabbit snails will eat healthy plants.

 

[ike2112]

White things on the log are eggs from the zebra snail. They won't hatch, nerites require brackish water for reproduction.

Pictures aren't clear enough to determine the betta's problem, but it sounds like a water quality issue. That's a LOT of fish in a small tank. What are the nitrogen readings? How often do you perform water changes?

Also, please note that rabbit snails will eat healthy plants.

Thanks
Re. Testing of water, just did that again today before water change as I'd been tracking ammonia drop in the still fairly new tank.
Ph of water is a little high but always has been in both tanks I've had - 7.4ph but even using api 'ph down' it never seems to change. Ammonia is 0.25ppm and has been dropping each week, nitrite 0, nitrate very high reading between 80 and 160 ppm on chart. I suspect that is due to a rotting live plant - I'd been away with work for a few days just over a wk ago and found branches floating. Thats all been removed since.
Using api freshwater master test kit for the above results.

Just changed about a third of the water yesterday, I normally change about a quarter of it weekly.

I bought everything from and have been guided by a pet store - Pets at Home (I am in Scotland, UK). They actually told me the neons and betta with corydoras were the limit of a 20litre tank. Thankfully I always planned it just as a trial and expected to upgrade.

I've never noticed any issues with the fish though and most have been together 5 months till now. First couple days betta chased the neons but he gave in and calmed down I think once he realised he wasn't going to catch them.

Some things I've read online suggest aquarium salt are a good 1st step medicine along with daily water change, but then I read last night one forum/reference suggesting salt is bad for betta?

I will try take better photos today but as I'm sure you appreciate he doesn't stay still much!

One question I had about these white spots/snail eggs. I only have 1 of each kind (yellow rabbit, red lip snail and zebra snail). I'm a bit ignorant here but I presumed by avoiding any pairs I wouldn't get any outbreaks of eggs or baby snails?

 

[ike2112]

Here is a pic of the full tank.

Pet store suggested I actually have room for a couple dwarf Gourami or similar but I stopped at the rummys and certainly don't plan to add more.

 

[OrionGirl]

Depends greatly on the type of snail. Some are hermaphrodites, some are store sperm. Rabbits won't reproduce if kept solo, but as mentioned, will eat anything green. Nerites will lay eggs, but they're infertile/require brackish/marine conditions to survive.

Ammonia levels are likely the cause of the sores on the betta. The nitrates are also quite high--how high are they in your tapwater?

In general, pet stores aren't always the best source of information. The fact is, they want you to buy stuff from them, and telling you more fish will be fine accomplishes that. With your tank not fully cycled, adding more fish is going to compound the problem, and as your current stock matures, the tank will be fully stocked.

 

[ike2112]

The ammonia is almost all gone, its been at the lowest end of the testing kit range for 2-3 weeks now.

Nitrate is very high. I have no idea about my regular tap water - I use tap safe on it though, I guess I can just test the tap water instead of tank water to check?
I am cautious with overfeeding - if anything may be underfeeding. Mostly use Terra Pro Energy flakes and it says feed 3 times a day... I only feed once and its all gone in less than a minute.

I do not plan on adding any more fish (although I used aqadvisor.com and it said only 67% stocked) just want to care for what we have.

 

[OrionGirl]

Yes, test your tapwater.

Ammonia is toxic and harmful at any detectable level. The longer the exposure, the more damage done. Getting the water clean and the tank fully cycled will be the best option. Monitor the betta, and if you start seeing signs of infection ( swelling, redness, lethargy, diminished activity or appetite), he may need to be moved to a setup that's fully cycled, or do more water changes to keep the ammonia as low as possible.

Regarding the nitrates--boosting the plant mass will help. Ideally, you want that to be below 40 ppm. If your tapwater is high in nitrates, you will need to do something to remove them.

 

[MardieJane]

Ummm just wondering about the salt question for betta? Is that a no no for them or is aquarium salt good for them? I've been told that too. Problem is, pet stores aren't the only ones you can get bad advice from. People who have had bettas "survive" think they are happy. So hard to know. I do realize all fish are like any other pet, they have personalities outside their "description"... so enjoying reading these question and answers.