Apple snails are sick/dying--why?

gingerinaustin

gingerinaustin

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Apr 11, 2007
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Background: My 55 gallon tank was initially set up April 7 and was fully cycled on June 11. I do water changes every 7 to 10 days. Testing between water changes have been running at pH 7, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 20.

I converted this tank to a planted tank on Labor Day weekend. Substrate was changed from regular gravel to Eco-Complete. All filter media was retained without rinsing. Fish stock is listed below. I did a 100% water change the weekend I set up the planted tank, and a 70% water change last weekend with a light gravel vac. I rinsed the filters out in old tank water with the second water change. I've noticed no appreciable mini-cycle since the change-over.

I dosed no ferts Labor Day week (Sept 2-8). Week two (Sept 9-15), I dosed API Leaf Zone once after the water change on the 9th (5 ml treats 10 gallons, I added 20 ml), and started dosing 1 cap Flourish Excel every other day (1 cap treats 40 gallons). Last week (Sept 16-today) I dosed API Leaf Zone after the water change on the 16th and bumped the Excel dosing to every day. I dosed API Leaf Zone again yesterday morning.

This morning I fed the fish, then dosed Excel. About 20 minutes later, I noticed half an apple snail (ew) behind a hunk of driftwood; I found the other half inside the shell (ew). As I netted the dead snail parts out, I spotted apple snail #2 roaming the side of the tank and apple snail #3 "sleeping" on the bottom of the tank (passed the 'sniff' test, no stinky).

About 30 minutes later I noticed both snails "sleeping" on the bottom of the tank and figured I needed to get them outta there. I filled up my water change bucket with fresh water, added Prime and put the snails in the bucket. Within 5 minutes they were peeking out of their shells; within 20 minutes they were procreating (I swear I have the randiest apple snails ever). Now, one's exploring the bucket and acting normally; the other's moving around but still acting a big groggy.

Naturally, I did a major (80%) water change on the tank and did not add any Excel or API Leaf Zone (did add Prime). While emptying the tank, I noticed two snail egg clutches on the hood. One was old and empty, the other was new. While filling the tank back up, I spotted a baby snail on the side of the tank; I scooped it up and put it in the bucket with Mom and Dad.

Now what? Obviously the snails are reacting poorly to something in the water, since they perked up when placed in new water (yet a baby snail can survive in the same environment--puzzling). I'm only adding two new chemicals (Excel and API Leaf Zone)--could one of these be making them sick? How long can apple snails survive in an unfiltered bucket of dechlorinated water, and how long after the water change should I wait until I try to put them back in the tank?

P.S. The fish are acting normally.

Any input appreciated. Thanks.
 
Hi there, I just wanted to help with some info for the snails, as I have a few myself. I know that they can breathe air if there are issues with the water, you will find a lot of info here: http://www.applesnail.net/. I have kept mine in a 2 gallon bucket with a small internal filter for about a month or so (with weekly changes) before I got them into a tank. Aside from being a bit messy, they were fine (block the intake). I know that mine are not always active, and I have read where they can appear to be very lazy at times, even for days.

I am sorry that I can't offer more help, but my point was that they would be okay in a bucket of water, maybe with a weekly change. They can live in water with fairly poor quality as they can siphon fresh air at the surface.

Good luck
 
Could the one that died have been attacked by a fish? I thought loaches eat snails?
 
i have heard that the metals found in some ferts can be fatal to inverts, specifically iron and copper. I would check your fert bottles to see if they contain either or both. You might consider posting at applesnail.net. If the snails do fine in the bucket I would have to suspect your ferts. as far as how long the snails can stay in the bucket, i have no idea. I have heard that metals (especially copper) can leech into the silicone in tanks and can be very difficult to get rid of....i believe you can buy a test kit to check. wish i had more concrete answers for you...good luck
 
Thanks. I've read mixed reports about Excel and snails. The API Leaf Zone contains iron. You would think there would be a warning on the label. I haven't dosed more than the recommended amount of either. The bucket is not heated so I may not be able to leave the snails in there very long. Clown loaches eat snails, not sure about kuhli loaches, but either the fish or the loaches could be could be eating the baby snails (ok by me); the snails are bigger than the loaches at this point though and they've lived together for a couple of months--maybe the loaches are big enough now to attack the snails?
 
i think that the snails will probably be fine temp wise in your bucket, its more the fact that it isn't being filtered and the ensuing ammonia and nitrite that would be a problem. Do you have a spare filter that you could put media from your established tank into to put into your bucket or a rubbermaid tub?
 
msjinkzd said:
Do you have a spare filter that you could put media from your established tank into to put into your bucket or a rubbermaid tub?
Click to expand...
no, and they can't live in the bucket forever...I'm considering putting them back in the tank and hoping the 80% water change was enough to dilute whatever it was that made them sick. Assuming they'll be OK (they were OK until last night), that creates a dilemma. Without CO2 and ferts, the plants will die. Do I cut back on the Excel and Leaf Zone and hope for a happy middle ground?

In the words of Charlie Brown: AAUGH.
 
gingerinaustin said:
Thanks. I've read mixed reports about Excel and snails. The API Leaf Zone contains iron. You would think there would be a warning on the label.
Click to expand...
You need iron for the plants. But iron is fine with snails.

Excel is a different story. There are lots of stories of Excel killing shrimps and snails. Some people reported having success with slowly acclimatizing their inverts to Excel.
 
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