ammonia > nitrite > nitrate - a simple Q

[Liz]

This is kind of a stupid question but I am just wondering, does 1 ppm ammonia change to 1 ppm nitrite, then 1 ppm nitrate? Are they all equal like that? Or does it amplify or something?

 

[mishi8]

It's not a stupid question! I learned something new here too.

A quick Google search brought up this info from http://www.azponds.com/nitrification.htm:

NOTE:
1 ppm of ammonia can lead to almost 3 ppm of nitrite because one Nitrogen atom in a molecule of ammonia (molecular weight of 17) forms one Nitrogen atom in a molecule of nitrite (molecular weight of 46), so 17 ppm of ammonia would lead to 46 ppm of nitrite. In other words, the ratio of the molecular weights (46/17) can potentially multiply the ammonia levels by 2.7 times.

1 ppm of nitrite can similarly lead to 1.35 ppm of nitrate (62/46).

HTH

 

[Liz]

That makes sense. I just got through a cycle and magically it jumped from 1 ppm ammonia, to like 2-3 ppm nitrite, to like 30 ppm nitrate. It just seemed kind of inconsistant and really magnified, my fish doesn't poo that much!
I'm a little disheartened though, my tap water reads 1 ppm ammonia, and that will I guess be a bit more than that in nitrate in the end.... Okay so I automatically have 4.05 nitrate in my tap water, that is, once it has gone through the cycle. Not too bad.

 

[Kasakato]

Thats normal. I got the same thing. This is why even 0.5ppm of ammoina is deadly to fish, its ammoina and once its gone through the cycle its even more deadly in its nitrite form.

 

[Liz]

I thought it was slightly less deadly in it's nitrite for, per ppm? It just means an automatic higher nitrite reading. I guess if 1 ppm ammonia = 3 ppm nitrite, than .25ppm ammonia (safe level) =.... .75ppm nitrite? Is .75 ppm nitrite deadly?

I am so happy the cycle is through, the bio spira helped it jump to the nitrite spike, btu that was taking a while so I didn't test for like a week and I tested today and my nitrites are down to .5 (from 2-3 the other day) and my nitrates are way up there. My puffer has been through quite a bit, since it is rather difficult to me to change out a 25 gallon compared to a 10, especially with its specific location, so I didn't do daily water changes; but he was fine through it all. Glad to know he's safe now though. Just have to change the water to get those nitrates down.

 

[Kasakato]

Ok deady was the wrong word. But it will stress the fish out. It also depends on the fish. Iv had some platies die at 0.5ppm of nitrite, but others have lived with 2ppm.

For water changes: Do you use a Python?

 

[mattpeck]

It's not a stupid question! I learned something new here too.

A quick Google search brought up this info from http://www.azponds.com/nitrification.htm:

NOTE:
1 ppm of ammonia can lead to almost 3 ppm of nitrite because one Nitrogen atom in a molecule of ammonia (molecular weight of 17) forms one Nitrogen atom in a molecule of nitrite (molecular weight of 46), so 17 ppm of ammonia would lead to 46 ppm of nitrite. In other words, the ratio of the molecular weights (46/17) can potentially multiply the ammonia levels by 2.7 times.

1 ppm of nitrite can similarly lead to 1.35 ppm of nitrate (62/46).

HTH

While the molecular weights are correct, the author has the chemistry of the nitrogen cycle wrong. The nitrogen cycle is a bio-chemical reaction used by the bacteria to create energy. This is how the process works:

2 NH3 (ammonia) + 3 O2 = 2 HNO2 (nitrite) + 2 H2O + Energy

Similarly, 2 HNO2 (nitrite) + O2 = 2 HNO3 (nitrate) + Energy

The number of nitrogen atoms (for that matter, the number of all the atoms) does not change, and there is no net gain in the concentration of the ractants (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) during the cycle. So there is a strict 1:1:1 ratio as the ammonia is converted into nitrate.

However, during fishless or fishy cycling, there is a constant source of new ammonia throughout the time period (either fish or ammonia injections). So the ammonia will peak as you first add it, but then as the nitrosomonas consume the ammonia it will decrease, but nitrites will rise. Nitrites will continue to rise because you are adding additional ammonia until the nitrobacter convert the nitrites into nitrates. Nitrates will continue to rise until you do a water change, or a plant uses it.

 

[Liz]

Ok deady was the wrong word. But it will stress the fish out. It also depends on the fish. Iv had some platies die at 0.5ppm of nitrite, but others have lived with 2ppm.

For water changes: Do you use a Python?

What is a python?
For my 10 gallon I just take some air tubing and put one end in the tank and suck on the other end for a second (bad, I know, but I make sure it's dry) then I quickly put the end out my window through a hole in my screen.

For my 25 gallon, it is lower and far from the window so I use 1 gallon bottles, I fill up two at a time, dump em, come back. Although I got 2.5 gallon bottles now.

I'm kind of unconventional, and I do things the hard way. My mom gave me some thing that's basically a plastic thing connected to giant air tubing, but I can't use it in my 10 gallon because of all the plants and I'm just used to doing things my (rather unefficient, I am sure) way.

 

[RTR]

If you work with ammonia-nitrogen, nitrite-nitrogen, and nitrate-nitrogen, then the relationship is 1->1->1. It is just working with the whole ion (ammonium, nitrite, nitrate) with 3-4 hydrogens or 2-3 oxygens that get confusing.

If your test is conventional, reporting total ammonia rather than excluding ammonium ion, then to me nitrite is more toxic than "ammonia + ammonium". That because nitrrite is toxic across the whole range of pH used in tanks, while the ammonia/ammonium ratio does shift with pH and temperature and only the dissolved ammonia is toxic, not the ammonium ion. In the ranges we use, all nitrite is toxic, but only a percentage of the ammonia + ammonium ion.

 

[Liz]

That makes sense.

I'm surprised I let my nitrite get up to like 3.0 and my puffer was still great....