Fish Death Help!

[kelceee]

Hi all I am fairly new to the world of looking after fish!

I originally got 2 small Blackmoors from a pet store at the end of July this year - I had no idea about fish so the store person offered some advice.... which was along the lines of the idea that 2 Blackmoors would be fine in a 20L tank. I have now come to learn this was not good! I also did not get told about cycling (big whoops!). Initially I was very scared about the fish tank becoming dirty and harming the fish I did the complete opposite to what I should have done.... I would remove all the water besides about 2L, clean down the sides of the tank and clean the substrate (once again I was stupid and thought this was good practice!). All was fine... I had one case of white spots on the fish but that was it.

I started proper fish tank care about a month ago (no cleaning the tank, only doing partial water change, siphon gravel, rinse filter in tank water etc). But I fear it was too late because one week ago one blackmoor died. His symptoms were: initially bottom sitting, clamped fins, then gasping hard at the bottom with gills pumping like mad... he died a day later and he had lot almost all the colouring in his fins and had turned from black to orange/silver.

A few days later I ended up buying a tank that is 80 or 90 L I am not entirely sure now I think of it - all I know is that it is huge compared to the other one! I ended up getting a new blackmoor too. To set up this tank I transferred everything over: substrate, fake plants, filter, tank water and the first remaining blackmoor. I even got a liquid testing kit. Everything was fine for about a week and the exactly same thing happened to the original blackmoor ... it was very distressing to watch, and he died again.

I have posted on another forum and I did not get much help, I would really like some insight into what could have caused his death. Just a side note, I am not entirely sure if my tank is cycled... I have recently added some liquid beneficial bacteria from the store to help with this. When the second one died (prior to adding of the BB) the tank had ammonia between 0-0.25, nitrites 0, nitrates 0 - so this ruled out nitrate/nitrite poisoning aswell as ammonia poisoning...

The two original blackmoors that died were from the same tank from the same shop, the new blackmoor who is still alive is from another store just incase this is a factor.

I have been told if the tank is uncycled then this could have caused their deaths... but they lasted 3 months before they died so I am not sure this was the cause especially because they seemed to have suffered a terrible prolonged death over the course of 2 days. I did notice on the 2nd blackmoor that died that under his gills/ not on the scales it was bright red! I have treated the remaining blackmoor with a broad spectrum treatment bath as a prophylaxis incase it is something bacterial/parasitic. Another suggestion is that it could have been oxygen deprivation but I am sure if it were then they wouldn't have died after 3 months in my care (it would have been quicker) and they also weren't gasping for air at the top.

Sorry for such a long post, I am just not sure what is happening to the poor fish

 

[kelceee]

Oh I also add water conditioner... The second fish that died also started doing somersault, twirling in the tank and couldn't swim properly (this was not present in the first fish that died)

 

[dudley]

Welcome to the forum and so sorry for your loss!!

A cycled tank should have zero ammonia, zero nitrite and some level of nitrate over 10PPM. However since you are using a bottled bacteria product, you will need to follow the instructions exactly since every product is different.

Use the ammonia test kit to test your tap (source) water to see whether you get a reading for ammonia as some water companies use chloramine as a disinfectant. Which brand water conditioner are you using and how much product are you adding during a water change?

Did you buy the API brand liquid test? If so, the nitrate test reagents need to be vigorously shaken up prior to dispensing the drops into the test tube and you need to follow the instructions exactly to get the proper reading.

Red gills could be the result of poisoning because the tank may not be cycled.

 

[Arthur11]

I have followed these steps to clean a fish tank after a fish dies: first remove the fish carcass from the tank, then check the filter system. I had to equip the tank with a sufficient filtration system. strong enough to keep the water clean from the waste produced by dead fish. Water testing is necessary because contaminated water can be the cause of engine downtime. In addition, a partial change of contaminated water is also the fastest way to remove contamination in the aquarium.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I have a pretty good idea of what happened and why. You are correct about doing the wron gthing in terms of getting the tank cycled. However, it did keep the fish alive but not in the beast of shape. All the water changes prevented things from building up to the fatal point but also prevented the tank from becoming properly cycled.

Without know what bacterial product you bought, I cannot tell what was in it. Most of them do not contain all of the needed bacreria that become established long term in a tank. however, some will act to make a tank safer even as they die off and are replaced by the ones that will be there longer term.

What you describe re the both fish dying is typical of ammonia poisoning. It burns the gills among other things. It can also results in balance issues due how ammonia can affect the brain. Each of your dead fish showed one of these symptoms.

Nitrite, on the other hand, makes it almost impossible for the blood to hold oxygen. So fish will gasp at the surface and hang under filter outflow trying to get oxygen. However, there is plenty of oxygen but the nitrite blocks it from getting into the blood. Nitrite can be counteracted with a small amount of salt in the water. Ammonia is another story. Some dechlorinators will detoxify ammonia, but this will slow down cycling even as it makes the ammonia less harmful short term.

Cycling a tank with fish is a slow process which requires a lot of testing and also using a very controlled stocking process. The goal is to control ammonia levels then nitrite levels until all the requisite levels of bacteria to keep the tank safe for the planned fish load has been cultivated.

Contrary to what one sees all over the net, not all ammonia levels during a fish in cycle mean one should do a big water change, there is a bit more to it than that. When one needs to do a water change depends not only on the ammonia level, but also on the pH and the temp. of the tank water. How much salt one might need to counteract nitrite depends on the level of nitrite and then some basic math to know how much salt to add. Again, testing to determine the level of nitrite will be the basis for how much salt is needed.

 

[dudley]

The OP hasn't been on in 2 years, the topic was bumped by a troll.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Oops